Things that piss you off that shouldn't

[mottaloo]

5 hours ago, Rds1983 said:

I dont think they're to blame but it does appear that a lot of people under 40 are not as financially aware as previous generations. 

I know a fair few people who have maxed themselves out on mortgages to get a big impressive house (often way more then they actually need) and haven't given any thought as to what happens if they lose their jobs, get ill, have a baby or rates increase etc. 

I feel the same way. Is it all about image now ? The flash house, leasing an audi SUV for, i dunno....£500 a month....keeping up with the Jones's....3 holidays a year...etc.

I am 55 and i finally got a will in place, with a few add ons it cost me £530 on the day but its me bought peace of mind. All this "live today, you could be dead tomorrow" is fine and dandy but what if you actually live on for a long time...?

[Rds1983]

51 minutes ago, mottaloo said:

I feel the same way. Is it all about image now ? The flash house, leasing an audi SUV for, i dunno....£500 a month....keeping up with the Jones's....3 holidays a year...etc.

I am 55 and i finally got a will in place, with a few add ons it cost me £530 on the day but its me bought peace of mind. All this "live today, you could be dead tomorrow" is fine and dandy but what if you actually live on for a long time...?

That's one of the reasons why I've got those things in place, but not maxing things out on house/cars allows me to put money away not just for my future but for my sons. He's the reason why I've got personal accident cover, life insurance, serious injury/disease cover etc. If anything ever happens to me I know my wife, and subsequently he will be looked after. If I somehow manage injure myself, then die in an accident whilst suffering from cancer my wife is set for life with the mortgage paid for and a nice payout on top. 

[Xela]

17 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm not in love with blaming a generation of people for this, particularly when that generation hasn't been responsible for diverting productive capital into ballooning property prices.

I see where you are coming from a little bit, there are people who struggle to get through month by month. I appreciate they aren't thinking about pension contributions and I don't blame them

On the flip-slide, there are plenty of people who should be thinking about it but would rather have a £100 per month Sky subscription or £60 a month iPhone 12 Pro, or £400 a month for the latest German diesel box. I'm not saying live like a pauper, but a bit more thought needs to go into it. Is it an education piece? Its not something that is discussed at school or even in the workplace. I've got colleagues with kids and mortgages, who haven't even looked at their pension. its all about a balance isn't it? The earlier you start the bigger impact your savings make in the long term. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

I see where you are coming from a little bit, there are people who struggle to get through month by month. I appreciate they aren't thinking about pension contributions and I don't blame them

On the flip-slide, there are plenty of people who should be thinking about it but would rather have a £100 per month Sky subscription or £60 a month iPhone 12 Pro, or £400 a month for the latest German diesel box. I'm not saying live like a pauper, but a bit more thought needs to go into it. Is it an education piece? Its not something that is discussed at school or even in the workplace. I've got colleagues with kids and mortgages, who haven't even looked at their pension. its all about a balance isn't it? The earlier you start the bigger impact your savings make in the long term. 

Ah but without those guys buying shit they don't really need, your equity investments wouldn't be so good

[Xela]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

Ah but without those guys buying shit they don't really need, your equity investments wouldn't be so good

You make a good point 

Come on people - keep buying shit from Apple, Tesla, Amazon, Google, et al, as I have 43% of my investments in US listed companies! 

[rjw63]

23 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm not in love

[mjmooney]

Minimalism and the whole cult of decluttering. OK, nobody wants to be one of those mentally ill hoarders who fill their house with mountains of garbage, and I do enjoy the occasional clearout, but I like having stuff. I like to be surrounded by the things that are the landmarks of a life - books, records, pictures, musical instruments, furniture, gadgets, whatever. I like to walk into a room that has lots of things to look at, things that tell stories - not four white walls and a chair. I can't think of much worse than living in such an austere environment. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by mjmooney

[StefanAVFC]

I wonder why younger generations aren't as financially aware. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the financially aware generations willingly choosing not to teach this key info

[bickster]

Some hairdressers association complaining that not enough apprentices are coming through

They are actually complaining that people are being encouraged to stay in education.

Do us a favour and f*** the f*** off

We need less of the you don't need to do well at school brigade

[Big Salad]

Born again Christians who think just because they have started going to church, reading the Bible, etc that that will make people forget all the bad and awful things they have done in the past; also when they then try to force their ways onto you.

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

I wonder why younger generations aren't as financially aware. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the financially aware generations willingly choosing not to teach this key info

Whoah, hold on a cotton-pickin' minute, there. 

I don't recall anybody teaching me that stuff. Not my parents, not my school. I had to find out myself - and in a pre-internet era at that. In the age of Google, I can see no excuse for ignorance of, well, anything really. 

[mjmooney]

1 minute ago, Big Salad said:

Born again Christians who think just because they have started going to church, reading the Bible, etc that that will make people forget all the bad and awful things they have done in the past; also when they then try to force their ways onto you.

There's a whole religion thread you might appreciate. 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

Whoah, hold on a cotton-pickin' minute, there. 

I don't recall anybody teaching me that stuff. Not my parents, not my school. I had to find out myself - and in a pre-internet era at that. In the age of Google, I can see no excuse for ignorance of, well, anything really. 

I'm not sure I agree Mike. By that logic no need for school, because everything can be googled. Finance is a complex topic and should be taught. 

For me it's the same as 'Young generations always want a participation medal' but it was the adults in charge who started giving them out. 

If there's an entire generation who know nothing about finance there's a root cause to that bigger than laziness. imo of course. 

[HanoiVillan]

39 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

If there's an entire generation who know nothing about finance there's a root cause to that bigger than laziness. imo of course. 

The problem is not laziness but incentives, and that's why education isn't the solution.

The problems with teaching personal finance in schools are: 1] Everyone's personal finances are different, and for some people they are or will be a source of shame; 2] Teenagers have little immediate need for the knowledge because they have little actual money, and 'prudent' actions like writing a will or getting life insurance might as well be a problem from another planet; and 3] There's no time in the curriculum anyway.

If we want to know why adults in their 30s haven't started seriously saving for a pension, we need to ask questions like 'why do people have so little in the way of savings', 'why does it take 25% of your working life to save for a deposit for a house' and 'why are people getting married later and having fewer kids'. Humans are humans, their character does not change over generations. If @mjmooney started saving without any education, it will presumably have been because life circumstances made that the logical thing to do, ie the incentives lined up. Now, the incentives don't line up; I'm sure they do for some, but for many they clearly don't.

[Xela]

I think its a mix of things. I think in @mjmooney's younger days, there was no such thing as easy credit. If you wanted something you generally saved up for it. A mortgage was generally your only borrowing. Maybe a loan for a car but then you had to sit in front of an actual bank manager and persuade them to lend you the money! 

Credit is easy now. PCP for £50k cars, pre-approved loans for £20k applying online. You can even spread the cost of nominal payments through services like Klarna. I think this promotes a laissez-faire attitude to borrowing nowadays for some people (not everyone). 

I definitely think it should be taught in schools. 

[HanoiVillan]

4 minutes ago, Xela said:

I think its a mix of things. I think in @mjmooney's younger days, there was no such thing as easy credit. If you wanted something you generally saved up for it. A mortgage was generally your only borrowing. Maybe a loan for a car but then you had to sit in front of an actual bank manager and persuade them to lend you the money! 

Credit is easy now. PCP for £50k cars, pre-approved loans for £20k applying online. You can even spread the cost of nominal payments through services like Klarna. I think this promotes a laissez-faire attitude to borrowing nowadays for some people (not everyone).

I think these are important points, but to me this still comes back to the question of the shift in the last four decades or so in the balance of wealth in favour of capital and away from labour, ie people's wages are too damn low. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who are just irresponsible with money - there have been forever, in every generation to grace the surface of the earth - but *on aggregate*, across the economy, companies make things available on credit both because the interest can be a source of revenue, and because there are larger parts of the consumer economy that would be harder to access by paying for things up front than there used to be in the past.

I agree with your point about borrowing and debt; I'm a little bit younger than you, but I remember being sat down by my parents as a teenager and sternly told that I should never get into debt at any point in my life, with the sole exception of a mortgage. I think it was not just practical advice on their part, but a source of (perhaps quite class-based) pride about what sort of son they would have raised. And that's fine, and while I haven't ever been particularly wealthy, I also have mostly just about got by, and with the exception of a current account overdraft for about three months after I left uni in 2007, I have managed to avoid being in debt.

But it's not possible or practical for everyone, and if we observe a situation, it's also worth asking *why* it has occurred. You're definitely right that the market is full of innovative financial products and new ways for consumers to get into debt on the one hand, and also consumers willing to do so on the other, but *why* has that come about? I don't think it's because other people of my generation are less moral or upright than I am, and I don't think it's because most people are lacking the basic financial understanding that it's better to pay for things with money you have now rather than money you hope to have in the future. In the end, it comes down to our stagnant wages IMO.

TL/DR  - we need full employment and a shift of wealth back to labour, and to the extent he is actually trying to do this, Biden is on the right track.

[villa4europe]

The transfer window

The media, SSN, talksport, jim white, agents... Everything about it, doesn't matter if its players in or players out 

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

I think its a mix of things. I think in @mjmooney's younger days, there was no such thing as easy credit. If you wanted something you generally saved up for it. A mortgage was generally your only borrowing. Maybe a loan for a car but then you had to sit in front of an actual bank manager and persuade them to lend you the money! 

 

Not to mention, going back to the subject that started it all, defined benefit pensions being the norm back then, so you didn't need educating about pensions, it was taken care of if you got a decent job. Not so much, these days.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Davkaus

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

I think its a mix of things. I think in @mjmooney's younger days, there was no such thing as easy credit. If you wanted something you generally saved up for it. A mortgage was generally your only borrowing. Maybe a loan for a car but then you had to sit in front of an actual bank manager and persuade them to lend you the money! 

Credit is easy now. PCP for £50k cars, pre-approved loans for £20k applying online. You can even spread the cost of nominal payments through services like Klarna. I think this promotes a laissez-faire attitude to borrowing nowadays for some people (not everyone). 

I definitely think it should be taught in schools. 

Definitely. Credit is the root of it, I think. I was taught, kind of twice, about managing money. Once as a kid of being made to save up and earn money for anything I wanted and then again as an apprentice when I started earning money that going into debt meant being kicked out. But in today’s world everything is easy and instant. When faced with that reality there’s a strong need to educate people to be mindful of managing their money. 

[chrisp65]

I’m not sure that the country we have built can start telling its young not to spend money they don’t have.