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Things that piss you off that shouldn't


AVFCforever1991

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24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I get the nostalgia of looking back over old albums like that. But if you're only interested in listening to music, then what's the benefit of owning it? Just to say you own it?

Well, as I mentioned earlier, one of the big benefits is you don't have to constantly pay to listen to music. I can pick out specific new albums or songs I want as I want them, and if there's nothing new that piques my interest, I don't pay that month.  I doubt I'd spend £120 a year every year if I did that (though some of you might spend a huge amount more).

I can see the appeal of having the world's music available at all times. If you really do listen to that much varied stuff, maybe it is a good deal for you, but I've used it for a couple of years, and I know there were several months I didn't listen to any new music at all, and I'd have been perfectly happy with listening to just a few of my favourite artists whose work I can pick up for a finite cost and listened to forever. 

I don't have a special attachment to 'owning' something, and I have no interest in the physical media at all, for me, it just seems like it's a good idea from an economical perspective. I currently have a Spotify account, and I think I've talked myself in to cancelling :P 

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We've hijacked a thread here.

Very much in the same place as Bicks with the whole memories, connections and friendships thing. A couple of anecdotes and I'll bugger off:

Super Furries issued an album recently that included a limited addition print by an artist I like, it also had an envelope of Yeti hair cut off one of their stage costumes. it has a track on a closed loop, so it plays indefinitely. There were only 400 issued, I've got number 274. That can never be reproduced on spotify.

I was tipped off about the existence of a record shop that had my kind of thing. Whilst I was in there, something was playing that I didn't know. I asked the guy behind the counter what it was. From there it got strange, he asked me if I had any idea what it was. I didn't. He asked if I'd buy it. I said yeah, go on then. He popped it in a bag, handed it over and told me it was free. Said it was a test pressing of something called '?' by someone called 'KH' and he'd been told to just give it away if someone said they liked it. Turns out it's now worth a few quid to collectors, but I won't sell it, it reminds me of one of those good days. Can't get that day on spotify either (I don't know if the actual track ? by KH is on there, it might well be.

Different folks different strokes, innit.

 

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2 hours ago, bickster said:

Cabaret Voltaire,

See if Caleb Roth is on the cover notes as one of the sound engineers ( or something like that )  , he’s an old mate of mine and worked on some of their stuff 

Edited by tonyh29
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2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

We've hijacked a thread here.

Very much in the same place as Bicks with the whole memories, connections and friendships thing. A couple of anecdotes and I'll bugger off:

Super Furries issued an album recently that included a limited addition print by an artist I like, it also had an envelope of Yeti hair cut off one of their stage costumes. it has a track on a closed loop, so it plays indefinitely. There were only 400 issued, I've got number 274. That can never be reproduced on spotify.

I was tipped off about the existence of a record shop that had my kind of thing. Whilst I was in there, something was playing that I didn't know. I asked the guy behind the counter what it was. From there it got strange, he asked me if I had any idea what it was. I didn't. He asked if I'd buy it. I said yeah, go on then. He popped it in a bag, handed it over and told me it was free. Said it was a test pressing of something called '?' by someone called 'KH' and he'd been told to just give it away if someone said they liked it. Turns out it's now worth a few quid to collectors, but I won't sell it, it reminds me of one of those good days. Can't get that day on spotify either (I don't know if the actual track ? by KH is on there, it might well be.

Different folks different strokes, innit.

 

Back in my Apple days i used to do loads of installs at record studios , offices  , management  teams etc ... 

they used to give me loads of promo’s and what not ... of which I have none now in my possession as i kinda gave them away , lost them over the years

a part of me hopes that none of them are now worth fortunes ... 

my favourite client was record collector magazine in Ealing , used to go there finish  the job and then kick back in a chair feet on the desk and listen to all these vinyl records with one of the writers there ... and usually come out with a few freebies 

happy days .. I think maybe my retirement will involve a man cave and a vinyl player ... and a huge stash of porn of course 

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I think i'd absolutely be all over spotify if I were in my teens right now. But ultimately everything I care enough about to listen to a whole album of was released somewhere between 1993 and 2006, and I have all those albums on CD.

 

I still buy the odd CD if something comes out I want to be able to play in my car, but other than that if I want to hear a specific song that I don't have i'll just use youtube.

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7 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

See if Caleb Roth is on the cover notes as one of the sound engineers ( or something like that )  , he’s an old mate of mine and worked on some of their stuff 

Discogs tells me he was an engineer on Code in 1987. This means he was sat next to the godlike genius of Adrian Maxwell Sherwood who produced that Album or most of it

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All fair points, but just on these two..

11 minutes ago, blandy said:

Secondly, buying the physical records and CDs pays the artist a fair price, spotify and those don't. It's not an issue if you play elton John or the beatles, but for acts that are not so well known, it's a lifeline.

Generally, I wouldn't have heard of the not so well known acts without spotify, so I wouldn't have been buying their albums anyway. I'm more likely to go and see one of their gigs now too.

15 minutes ago, blandy said:

Thirdly - it supports local record shops (action records, piccadilly records etc in my case). Little dens of audio treasure. Actual people who run them, not some programmer in wherever with an algorithm.

I do understand this and I know this sounds really harsh, but I haven't bought a CD for 10 years, so why would I be interested in supporting my local record shop? I'm not even sure where they are tbh.

My mom and dad still get milk delivered by the milk man even though they don't really need or want to, they just want to support their local milk man. My mom even works at the local co-op, she could buy milk there everyday if she wanted.

Thinking about it....why does my mom insist on using a milkman..? 😟

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47 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

Generally, I wouldn't have heard of the not so well known acts without spotify, so I wouldn't have been buying their albums anyway. I'm more likely to go and see one of their gigs now too.

......

Thinking about it....why does my mom insist on using a milkman..? 😟

Yeah, good point. That's one of the benefits of all these streaming and youtube wotnots.

Um... :)

 

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4 hours ago, blandy said:

Further to @chrisp65's answer, there's quality - play a CD or a LP on a proper stereo and the audio quality (sound, basically) is miles better. Streamed youbes or spotifies or googles or applemusics are way down below what my CD player or turntable produce.

Secondly, buying the physical records and CDs pays the artist a fair price, spotify and those don't. It's not an issue if you play elton John or the beatles, but for acts that are not so well known, it's a lifeline.

Thirdly - it supports local record shops (action records, piccadilly records etc in my case). Little dens of audio treasure. Actual people who run them, not some programmer in wherever with an algorithm.

Fourth - for pleasure of the physical items.

fifth - manageability. I don't need a good signal to stream what's on a CD, or on my phone from a CD, I don't need a £30 a month mobile phone contract. It's cheaper, possibly, and more convenient therefore, for me.

There are more, but It's time for medinner

All good points. Thanks for replying. None of them are relevant to me, but I can see why people value them.

 

Apart from the 5th point. You don't need any of those things to use Spotify (or google or apple music). You just need a device that can connect to WiFi at some point so you can download all the music you want. It's a better product if you DO have a mobile connection, but it's definitely not a necessity.

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I get the point about physical music but for me Spotify has allowed me to listen to all the back catalogues of Pink Floyd, Queen, Black Sabbath and multiple other bands for the cost of a Costa coffee per week. I can have all of them downloaded onto my phone (or tablet) in a matter of minutes. All you need is a wifi enabled device. You don't need to stream* them at all. I've also listened to music from recommendations of friends which I would have never listened to otherwise as there would have been no chance I would pay for the album. 

Its like having access to the biggest music library in the world and you can keep the music indefinitely. 

Like @chrisp65 says, different strokes, different folks but I will never purchase an album direct again. 

 

 

*applies to premium only

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1 hour ago, Xela said:

I get the point about physical music but for me Spotify has allowed me to listen to all the back catalogues of Pink Floyd, Queen, Black Sabbath and multiple other bands for the cost of a Costa coffee per week. I can have all of them downloaded onto my phone (or tablet) in a matter of minutes. All you need is a wifi enabled device. You don't need to stream* them at all. I've also listened to music from recommendations of friends which I would have never listened to otherwise as there would have been no chance I would pay for the album. 

Its like having access to the biggest music library in the world and you can keep the music indefinitely. 

Like @chrisp65 says, different strokes, different folks but I will never purchase an album direct again. 

 

 

*applies to premium only

Thing is, if everyone had that attitude (and I'm not saying it's wrong) then there would eventually be no new music apart from manufactured pop shite and even that's doubtful. Artistes simply do not earn anywhere near enough money to survive from online sources. Recording costs would simply not be met, there would be no point in recording music. If everyone moved over to the online models we'd be eventually left with pretty much what we have now

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6 minutes ago, bickster said:

Thing is, if everyone had that attitude (and I'm not saying it's wrong) then there would eventually be no new music apart from manufactured pop shite and even that's doubtful. Artistes simply do not earn anywhere near enough money to survive from online sources. Recording costs would simply not be met, there would be no point in recording music. If everyone moved over to the online models we'd be eventually left with pretty much what we have now

Did many artists actually make a decent amount of cash from recordings in the first place, even back when CDs were commonplace? 

I was under the impression that most make the vast majority of their music from live performances, and if that's the case, couldn't it be that the larger audience from being available on Spotify et al helps to sell tickets? they may earn less per listener, but there are far more listeners, so I wonder if it still works out.

Guess work based on little more than things I vaguely recall reading, I appreciate you have a bit of insight in to the industry behind the scenes, so happy to be corrected.

Edited by Davkaus
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16 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Did many artists actually make a decent amount of cash from recordings in the first place, even back when CDs were commonplace? 

I was under the impression that most make the vast majority of their music from live performances, and if that's the case, couldn't it be that the larger audience from being available on Spotify et al helps to sell tickets? they may earn less per listener, but there are far more listeners, so I wonder if it still works out.

Yes, they did, or enough of them did to make the next record etc They maybe didn't make enough to live off but... There would always be someone willing to take a punt on a band they liked and invest in a studio session, whether that be a record company, a fan with money, someone who fancied his hand at management etc. This model puts that chance at an absolute minimum

Live music used to be the loss leader up to a reasonably high level, bands would get "tour support" from record companies to make up the shortfall (it was effectively their money out their deal but thats a different story altogether)

EDIT: Sorry hit send by accident earlier

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36 minutes ago, bickster said:

Yes

Friends in successful Indie bands never used to have day jobs, did they?

The digital age suddenly opened up professional quality recording at home, then wiped out much of the profit you might have made from your quality recording.

 

Edited by Xann
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1 hour ago, bickster said:

Thing is, if everyone had that attitude (and I'm not saying it's wrong) then there would eventually be no new music apart from manufactured pop shite and even that's doubtful. Artistes simply do not earn anywhere near enough money to survive from online sources. Recording costs would simply not be met, there would be no point in recording music. If everyone moved over to the online models we'd be eventually left with pretty much what we have now

This is probably why music in almost every single genre has gotten markedly worse over the past two decades.

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1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

Did many artists actually make a decent amount of cash from recordings in the first place, even back when CDs were commonplace? 

Yes, they used to tour to promote the album so it was relatively inexpensive to go and watch bands play live. 

Now tours are the only way they can make money hence you need to speak to a mortgage advisor before seeking out a tour ticket. 

I used to go to see loads of bands in my youth when I had no money.  Now I hardly go to any because I can't justify the ticket price. 

Edited by sidcow
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Then again I do think the music industry had it coming to them. 

Towards the end of CD domination if a top band bought out a new album they were getting towards £20 for a new release, and we are talking about 15 years ago now, £20 went a lot further back then. 

I remember thinking they were taking liberties and refusing to buy an album till it became a little out of date when they reduced to £10 or so. 

They were definitely ripping off the consumer then and the consumer went all out to get them which is why things like Napster went stratospheric. 

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17 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Then again I do think the music industry had it coming to them. 

Towards the end of CD domination if a top band bought out a new album they were getting towards £20 for a new release, and we are talking about 15 years ago now, £20 went a lot further back then. 

I remember thinking they were taking liberties and refusing to buy an album till it became a little out of date when they reduced to £10 or so. 

They were definitely ripping off the consumer then and the consumer went all out to get them which is why things like Napster went stratospheric. 

There was a lot wrong with the old system from a band POV too

it needed to change but the current model isn’t the solution

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On 17/01/2019 at 20:27, Stevo985 said:

I looked at this post for ages trying to get the joke.
I thought it was some sort of clever joke about leasing cars, tied into the point about never owning music/films etc in the same way as you don't own a car if you lease it.

:D 

Not sure why they have stopped naming porn mags after cheap cars these days.  I think that Renegade, Megane, Qubo, Baleno, Kona, Niro, Optima,  Sportage, Doblo, Tipo, Tivoli, Tourneo, Fiorino, Fabia, Clio and Jazz would all make decent porn mag names and of course not to forget Swift Ceed Up. 

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