Things that piss you off that shouldn't

[VILLAMARV]

6 hours ago, Troglodyte said:

Shit beer in pubs. I'm not a hipster craft ale snob but so many places serve the same horrible piss. I'd just like my lager to actually taste of something.

(You fancy city dwelling folk may not have to suffer this as frequently.)

And this deserves a place in here because going out to the pub for a few pints should not be something that pisses me off. Won't even get started on the prices...

 

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

There's your mistake. 

EDIT: More seriously, the whole point of 'draught' lager in pubs is that it's keg. Sealed, pressurised, pasteurised, sterilised, chilled. So it always tastes the same. If it actually tastes bad, that's almost certainly the fault of dirty feed pipes. If it's tasteless, then hey, that's what it is. Whereas with ale, the risk of it tasting bad is considerably higher, due to the care required in keeping it. If the bar staff don't know what they're doing, you're safer drinking lager (or bottled beer). But, at its best, ale wins every time. 

 

37 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Amen.

I don't drink but your local should be a place of refreshment both in ale and from ail.

Nicely said AV, just your statement makes me sadder than the others, because I agree with you so much and know that that sentiment is one which shall become less and less prevalent.

A couple of years ago CAMRA were quoting that the average number of community pub closures a week had fallen to 20 (2016) from 26 (2015) the press , in the main, chose to run with the idea that the drop in numbers was a great thing rather than the closures themselves being a bad thing. (It was around 45 a week in 09 - 2340 closures that year or 6/7 a day)

Over here the competition from Supermarkets is impossible to compete with. I think that closing off licenses and allowing the sale of alcohol EVERYWHERE has had the biggest effect on the industry without a doubt. The smoking ban had a massive and instant effect on turnovers and not in a good way. And then the rise of the usurous real estate companies like Wetherspoons and Punch Taverns that have bankrupted so many people with their tied deals, high rents and ever rising targets to hit the ones who actually make a fist of it in the current climate.

The days of corner house boozers on terraced rows is gone pretty much. Certain buildings in the right location with lots of parking can flourish, City/Town Centre boozers will always have a good footfall if you can survive among the saturation. There will always be exceptions but like any industry in hard times the middle gets hit. Still swanky bars about selling pints for a tenner and all that and still enough places to load up on cooking lager and head out to the clubs for cheap doubles (painstripper folks in case you ever questioned it!).

The culture that I grew up in is increasingly disappearing - and some people may view that as a good thing - at the end of the day us publicans were mere drug dealers making alcoholics out of people and ruining families right? But I can't help but think that there was something good that is immeasurable being lost. The way we mingled regularly with our neighbours and wider local community no matter what your walk of life. People are quick to reminisce about pub quizzes and the fat bloke talking nonsense being obliterated as cultural phenomena by the advent of google, how many of these conversations we have on here would 20 years ago be had over a bar down the road though?

Nerve touched. Rant over (until the next time!).

[VILLAMARV]

32 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

I've always called this the trio of doom.

"Cooking Lager"

[BOF]

2 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

the press , in the main, chose to run with the idea that the drop in numbers was a great thing rather than the closures themselves being a bad thing. (It was around 45 a week in 09 - 2340 closures that year or 6/7 a day)

Not to mention that a continued drop, even at a reduced rate, eventually results in everything closed.  It's not quite asymptotic, but as you get closer to zero the rate will level off.  Eventually it'll be 'yay nothing closed this year' because nothing's open.

[VILLAMARV]

35 minutes ago, Troglodyte said:

 And also a bigger reason the lager tastes shit is because the choice is Fosters, Carling or Carlsberg - basically something cheap and weak and made over here.

I also love wheat beer but very few places have it. 

Stop buying it, it will go away

Ever increasingly less Free-Houses these days so the beer choice is basically dictated by the tied deals. Surely there's a 'premium' brand also (Stella/Grolsch/Peroni) - even if it's something you don't like? If not there'll be one on their product list.

[VILLAMARV]

Craft Beer is, imho, a fad which will peter out - but the small breweries have been thrown a lifeline by it tbh. Lower production costs - much quicker brewing times (coz it's not real beer ) and all those little bottles of flavouring! I know a few brewers who have done well out of it so I'm happy for them. Also if I was a lager drinker I would definitely swap to fizzy craft beers - some of them are really nice even if it is sneered at by the beardy CAMRA types.

[BOF]

The English do seem to like terrible lager.  Fair enough if lager isn't your thing, but within the world of lager there is good and bad.  Your loyalty to Fosters, Carling & Tennents is baffling. 

[BOF]

Just now, VILLAMARV said:

Also if I was a lager drinker I would definitely swap to fizzy craft beers - some of them are really nice even if it is sneered at by the beardy CAMRA types.

Thanks to craft beer, my addiction is now a 'hobby'

[Troglodyte]

22 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

Stop buying it, it will go away

Ever increasingly less Free-Houses these days so the beer choice is basically dictated by the tied deals. Surely there's a 'premium' brand also (Stella/Grolsch/Peroni) - even if it's something you don't like? If not there'll be one on their product list.

Exactly. If I want draught lager then I generally just have to go with whatever 'premium' one they have in, although sometimes they don't even have one or it's not available. And those you mentioned are common but not great, and I'm now often seeing something like San Miguel (slightly stronger Carlsberg, but admittedly better - not a difficult feat) or Budweiser (no thanks).

[Wainy316]

38 minutes ago, BOF said:

The English do seem to like terrible lager.  Fair enough if lager isn't your thing, but within the world of lager there is good and bad.  Your loyalty to Fosters, Carling & Tennents is baffling. 

The Tennents thing is all north of Berwick.  Don't tar the English with that, although it is marginally better than Carling.

[ender4]

1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

 

A couple of years ago CAMRA were quoting that the average number of community pub closures a week had fallen to 20 (2016) from 26 (2015) the press , in the main, chose to run with the idea that the drop in numbers was a great thing rather than the closures themselves being a bad thing. (It was around 45 a week in 09 - 2340 closures that year or 6/7 a day)

 

Thats because CAMRA were intentionally using irrelevant or disingenuous figures.  

The net figures are what are of interest - by ignoring the 1000's of new pubs opening at the same time as pub closures, the figures were pretty much rubbish.  

The net reduction in number of licenced premises was actually pretty small. 

 

EDIT:  If there is a discussion to be had, it would be how the look and feel of pubs has changed from grotty, smelly, smoky, unfriendly places, into modern, friendly, clean, light places that everyone feels comfortable visiting.   

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by ender4

[mjmooney]

7 minutes ago, ender4 said:

If there is a discussion to be had, it would be how the look and feel of pubs has changed from grotty, smelly, smoky, unfriendly places, into modern, friendly, clean, light places that everyone feels comfortable visiting.   

Fake news. 

[ender4]

2 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Fake news. 

why?

[rjw63]

1 hour ago, BOF said:

Thanks to craft beer, my addiction is now a 'hobby'

I **** love craft beers, I get 'em from Holland via Beerwulf, the Dutch IPA's and Belgian dubbels and tripels are fantastic

Edited August 17, 2018 by rjw63

[VILLAMARV]

10 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Thats because CAMRA were intentionally using irrelevant or disingenuous figures.  

The net figures are what are of interest - by ignoring the 1000's of new pubs opening at the same time as pub closures, the figures were pretty much rubbish.  

The net number of licenced premises was actually pretty small.

EDIT:  If there is a discussion to be had, it would be how the look and feel of pubs has changed from grotty, smelly, smoky, unfriendly places, into modern, friendly, clean, light places that everyone feels comfortable visiting.  

The rest of it is fake news too I'm afraid. The total number of pubs in the UK is currently around the 50,000 mark. 18 years ago it was around the 60,000 mark. I wouldn't call that small myself. Although BOF's point about the rate of decline is pertinant.

Quote

This statistic shows the total number of pubs in the United Kingdom (UK) from 2000 to 2016. Except for a small recovery in 2010, pub numbers have been steadily decreasing. As of 2016, there were 50,300 pubs operating in the UK.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/310723/total-number-of-pubs-in-the-united-kingdom/

So not the predicted 25% drop, (Just an 'actually pretty small' 16%!!) but still thousands and thousands of jobs and whilst that fall, as you say, was tempered by the opening of new establishments and a certain amount of that was a change in culture it's hardly a drop in the ocean - so for example around 10 years ago - (When admittedly the gap is at it's widest to illustrate my point )

Quote

UK pubs closed at a rate of 52 per week in the first half of the year - a third more than the same period in 2008 - the British Beer & Pub Association said.

Local pubs were the most vulnerable as communities were hit by the fallout of the economic downturn, it added. And branded pubs and cafe-style bars were opening at a rate of two a week, according to the report.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8161793.stm

 

[VILLAMARV]

4 minutes ago, ender4 said:

why?

[mjmooney]

8 minutes ago, ender4 said:

why?

Because of the slanted choice of language. Old pubs were "smelly and unwelcoming". What about the ones that were cosy, traditional and welcoming? The 'pie and a pint', open fireplace, reasonably priced ale ones? They've been closing down, too. And what are these idyllic new places that have replaced them? Overpriced, 'curated, artisanal, craft gin' places, full of hipsters, and looking more like art galleries than pubs. See? I can slant the language to suit my agenda, too! 

[ender4]

2 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Because of the slanted choice of language. Old pubs were "smelly and unwelcoming". What about the ones that were cosy, traditional and welcoming? The 'pie and a pint', open fireplace, reasonably priced ale ones? They've been closing down, too. And what are these idyllic new places that have replaced them? Overpriced, 'curated, artisanal, craft gin' places, full of hipsters, and looking more like art galleries than pubs. See? I can slant the language to suit my agenda, too! 

Of course, i'm generalising, there will always be a minority that are the opposite to the rule. 

Were these old pubs ever that welcoming to females, ethnic minorities, families, etc? 

I'm not sure the welcoming traditional open fireplace ones will be the ones that are closing anyway.

I understand your point about the new places being hipster, artisanal, etc.  But that was my point about the debate being about the change in style of pubs, rather than the absolute number of premises being closed.   

[VILLAMARV]

40 minutes ago, ender4 said:

If there is a discussion to be had, it would be how the look and feel of pubs has changed from grotty, smelly, smoky, unfriendly places, into modern, friendly, clean, light places that everyone feels comfortable visiting.   

Firstly, like mooney says it's the framing of the argument and choice of language.

Prove to me that what you have said is true. Or indeed measurable.

The picture I posted doesn't look very modernised or friendly or clean or anywhere anyone would feel comfortable visiting eh? So while you may have a personal anecdotal story about your local pub/pubs it cannot be claimed to be the norm in any way.

Secondly, There simply does not exist in society this mythical group of people who were apparently wanting to visit pubs regularly but were prevented from doing so by smoke and smells and grottyness.

[Dr_Pangloss]

News coverage of Aretha Franklin's death massively OTT.

[Dr_Pangloss]

2 hours ago, BOF said:

The English do seem to like terrible lager.  Fair enough if lager isn't your thing, but within the world of lager there is good and bad.  Your loyalty to Fosters, Carling & Tennents is baffling. 

Yep, most of them love drinking what is effectively piss. Give me a meantime pale ale or a beaverton neck oil/gamma ray any day of the week. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Dr_Pangloss