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Things that piss you off that shouldn't


AVFCforever1991

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3 minutes ago, Genie said:

Whilst I agree to a point, if he's being told to do something by the police and then physically refuses then I guess he's breaking the law isn't he? The head bang wasn't intentional but a result of him having to be removed as he resisted the police attempts to that point.

Legally the flight crew can ask him to leave the plane, he refused and had to be dragged off resulting in the injury.

I'm sorry but this is absurd.

He bought a ticket, was told to leave the plane voluntary (or forced) then when he refused because he had to be at work treating patients the next day, (needs to be confirmed) he gets manhandled and bloodied up. 

It's nowhere near 6 of each. It's about 11.9 of each, 0.1 of the other.

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2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'm sorry but this is absurd.

He bought a ticket, was told to leave the plane voluntary (or forced) then when he refused because he had to be at work treating patients the next day, (needs to be confirmed) he gets manhandled and bloodied up. 

It's nowhere near 6 of each. It's about 11.9 of each, 0.1 of the other.

I'm not talking about the over booking part of it.

The fact the police are there telling him he needs to leave the flight, he refused and ended up hurt. It's hard for the police to get him out in such a tight space, what are they supposed to do? They are just following orders themselves that he has to be removed.

Its a horrible situation all round, but he has a part to play in why he has a very sore head now and probably could be charged with several offences.

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5 minutes ago, Genie said:

I'm not talking about the over booking part of it.

The fact the police are there telling him he needs to leave the flight, he refused and ended up hurt. It's hard for the police to get him out in such a tight space, what are they supposed to do? They are just following orders themselves that he has to be removed.

Its a horrible situation all round, but he has a part to play in why he has a very sore head now and probably could be charged with several offences.

Regardless.

If you're told you need to leave a restaurant, when you've already paid for your food and not had it (like a nandos) because they booked too many people in that night, and you say no, are they entitled to remove you any way they want? Then also, are you committing an offence by refusing to leave?

I'm sorry but the guy is completely absolved of any blame here and it's a total disgrace that he's ended up hurt. Your argument only makes sense if he's being removed because he's done something wrong. All he's done wrong is buy a ticket with United.

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7 minutes ago, Genie said:

I'm not talking about the over booking part of it.

The fact the police are there telling him he needs to leave the flight, he refused and ended up hurt. It's hard for the police to get him out in such a tight space, what are they supposed to do? They are just following orders themselves that he has to be removed.

Its a horrible situation all round, but he has a part to play in why he has a very sore head now and probably could be charged with several offences.

This is a fairly bizarre justification for this man now having a "very sore head". The Department of Aviation have said that they do not condone the actions of this 'officer' and have suspended him pending an investigation. The man's reluctance to leaving the plane did not justify an assault at all whatsoever. 'Following orders' my ass, this was a total abuse of power.

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4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Regardless.

If you're told you need to leave a restaurant, when you've already paid for your food and not had it (like a nandos) because they booked too many people in that night, and you say no, are they entitled to remove you any way they want? Then also, are you committing an offence by refusing to leave?

I'm sorry but the guy is completely absolved of any blame here and it's a total disgrace that he's ended up hurt. Your argument only makes sense if he's being removed because he's done something wrong. All he's done wrong is buy a ticket with United.

I've watched it again and I'm pretty sure it's not a Nando's :lol:

I think you're forgetting they are allowed to over sell the flight and they are allowed to remove people (of course it's a shit situation) but fact is they can.

If a a police officer asks you to leave you're obliged by law to do it, he doesn't have a right to his seat. Leaving is not optional and certainly not on a plane with the current climate we live in. 

So he does have some of the blame for getting hurt in my eyes (so do the airline and so do the police). 

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1 minute ago, Genie said:

I've watched it again and I'm pretty sure it's not a Nando's :lol:

I think you're forgetting they are allowed to over sell the flight and they are allowed to remove people (of course it's a shit situation) but fact is they can.

If a a police officer asks you to leave you're obliged by law to do it, he doesn't have a right to his seat. Leaving is not optional and certainly not on a plane with the current climate we live in. 

So he does have some of the blame for getting hurt in my eyes (so do the airline and so do the police). 

I just don't get this train of thought.

He was pulled off because their own staff needed the seats. Regardless of whether it's their policy or whatever bollocks, nothing can justify the manner in which he was removed. I've never seen anything like it, nor anyone justifying it!

 

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My data for the month being used up within a few days because an email I tried to send failed, and then constantly tried to resend again non-stop over and over again by itself for several days until I got a message stating my internet data had been used up.

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Police aren't infallible arbiters of all things. They are employed to follow the law. If you are convinced of your own right then stand your ground, and protest your innocence otherwise you are admitting guilt or allowing the police to be proven right even if they aren't. If a police officer uses force then they'd better make sure they are in the right. 

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Surely the next step after he refused because he has patients to attend to is continue the search for a passenger willing to wait for the next flight, offering more than their initial cash incentive as opposed to physically assaulting the man who's only crime was to be selected by random.

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Just now, darrenm said:

Police aren't infallible arbiters of all things. They are employed to follow the law. If you are convinced of your own right then stand your ground, and protest your innocence otherwise you are admitting guilt or allowing the police to be proven right even if they aren't. If a police officer uses force then they'd better make sure they are in the right. 

Yep. The guy did zero wrong.

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Isn't it illegal to refuse to comply with an order to leave an aircraft? It doesn't justify the manhandling, but you can't just say "lol no" when the police tell you to get off a plane.

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what about this?

http://fusion.net/chicago-police-say-the-man-they-brutally-dragged-off-a-1794182931

Quote

After United all but refused to confirm that the customer, who hasn’t been publicly identified, was violently removed–leaving him disoriented and his faced bloodied–Chicago police, who were called in by the airline, said Monday afternoon that the man “fell” as he was being pulled off the plane, causing injuries to his face.

 

 

It's just overzealous dishonesty.

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I'm not an expert in American airlines - just viewing them from afar - but I wonder if this won't help them in the long run. Since none of them seem to compete on service, and as far as I can tell their constant main concern is competing on price with Southwest and other low-cost carriers, a scandal like this will help if it persuades more people to upgrade to first (to guarantee their seats and not be treated like cattle) or check in early online (allowing them to lay off check in counter staff). 

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8 hours ago, a m ole said:

Surely the next step after he refused because he has patients to attend to is continue the search for a passenger willing to wait for the next flight, offering more than their initial cash incentive as opposed to physically assaulting the man who's only crime was to be selected by random.

Absolutely this. An easy solution if airlines are intent on overbooking is a reverse auction.

"Ladies and gents we need 4 people to take the next flight. We'll start at $300, press the call button if you'd like to take that offer.

$350" ding

"$400" ding ding

$450" ding 

 

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30 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Absolutely this. An easy solution if airlines are intent on overbooking is a reverse auction.

"Ladies and gents we need 4 people to take the next flight. We'll start at $300, press the call button if you'd like to take that offer.

$350" ding

"$400" ding ding

$450" ding 

 

I agree, this is slightly more of a "customer first" approach. With a cabin with 300 people you can be sure there will be some people who will appreciate the money and have the flexibility to wait a few hours for the next flight.

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9 hours ago, darrenm said:

Not sure but surely you can refuse to do anything until you're arrested, but then you have to comply.

I don't think that's correct in the US.  If they pull you over and they tell you to sit in your car,  if you get out and move your hands to quick or put one in a pocket you are going to die.  You are not under arrest at that point but it makes no difference.  they say jump and you jump.

If the guy on the plane had reached into a bag then all the guns would be out if they had them and accidents happen etc.

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4 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

I don't think that's correct in the US.  If they pull you over and they tell you to sit in your car,  if you get out and move your hands to quick or put one in a pocket you are going to die.  You are not under arrest at that point but it makes no difference.  they say jump and you jump.

If the guy on the plane had reached into a bag then all the guns would be out if they had them and accidents happen etc.

I think in the US it depends what colour you are.

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58 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Absolutely this. An easy solution if airlines are intent on overbooking is a reverse auction.

"Ladies and gents we need 4 people to take the next flight. We'll start at $300, press the call button if you'd like to take that offer.

$350" ding

"$400" ding ding

$450" ding 

 

There's no need for common sense in those situations, much easier to manhandle, assault and embarrass someone who has done nothing wrong.

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