villa4europe Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: How can you argue otherwise?! You guys talk about Bruce 'rewriting history' with his alleged media pals - jeezus christ, stones in glass houses n all that. He put together (and yes, probably underachieved with) the team that fell one game, one goal short of promotion 12 months ago, he then put the majority of the team together that won promotion this season. Sure, he failed to get probably even close to seeing the best of those squads, something that Smith seemingly showed up but to claim he didn't put good squads together is beyond crazy - it's simply untrue, opinions or otherwise. Amazes me the level of vitriol and bitterness still felt by some here regards SB, it's old news but you'd think he personally showed up on some posters' doorsteps today for his morning shit going off some of the crap written on here. depends on what you consider to be his remit, get us out of the championship (which he didn't do) blood youngsters (which he didn't do) or find gems to polish up ready for the PL (which he didn't do) personally I don't judge his transfer record purely on getting us promoted, I think us spending in the region of 150m this summer reflects badly on our last couple of years, we haven't developed anyone really while we had the chance, we released 7 players who weren't good enough to step up 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: How can I argue otherwise? Mainly by looking at his recruitment. But don't try and tell me Lansbury, Bree, Bjarnason, Hogan, Bedeau, Taylor, Samba, Nyland, Kalinic or Bolasie were good signings. Yes he signed some decent players, no doubt about it like Hourihane and McGinn will go down as one of our best signings in years but they were the exceptions. Perhaps I should include Elmo also. Whelan was largely terrible until Smith arrived so don't try and claim him. Most of his best signings were the loans like Tammy, Snodgrass, Axel (who he played out of position) which simply came down to our finances and ability to pay huge wages. (this despite him pleading poverty) So I don't think he should be given too much praise for those. I also think it is ridiculous to try and give him credit for the squad he left behind for Smith which was subsequently promoted. Ah right, forgot we don't count loans guys - my bad. Let's remove Tammy's 26 goals from last season along with AeG's contributions etc...........apparently they don't count........where'd we be without those contributions I wonder? Sorry Trent but you'll make anything fit your narrow view on SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, villa4europe said: depends on what you consider to be his remit, get us out of the championship (which he didn't do) blood youngsters (which he didn't do) or find gems to polish up ready for the PL (which he didn't do) personally I don't judge his transfer record purely on getting us promoted, I think us spending in the region of 150m this summer reflects badly on our last couple of years, we haven't developed anyone really while we had the chance, we released 7 players who weren't good enough to step up His remit was promotion, he fell about as short as can possibly be give or take. He failed yes but we're not talking Les Reed @ Charlton level failure and in fact, he did far better than many of his predecessors and yet, I can't think of any one of those predecessors who gets the same level of shit. Sure, we reference how shit Lambert and Sherwood were, or how inept Garde seemed but that's where it ends whilst still, we post pictures of SB laughing and pointing at his fat belly (ironically, I'd wager a large portion of those pointing and laughing would look no better on a beach). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Ah right, forgot we don't count loans guys - my bad. Let's remove Tammy's 26 goals from last season along with AeG's contributions etc...........apparently they don't count........where'd we be without those contributions I wonder? Sorry Trent but you'll make anything fit your narrow view on SB. I didn't say they don't count but I think it is perfectly valid to say that they are different to permanent signings. I don't think it is hard to sign the best loan players from the PL when you are at one of if not the biggest club in the Championship paying the best wages. I admit I forgot AEG though. I notice you ignore the list of the players he did sign though and the huge amount of money he wasted on them. It has nothing to do with trying to make things fit my view of Bruce, it is simply my view of Bruce. You don't share it, that is fine but I'm not about to change mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: His remit was promotion, he fell about as short as can possibly be give or take. He failed yes but we're not talking Les Reed @ Charlton level failure and in fact, he did far better than many of his predecessors and yet, I can't think of any one of those predecessors who gets the same level of shit. Sure, we reference how shit Lambert and Sherwood were, or how inept Garde seemed but that's where it ends whilst still, we post pictures of SB laughing and pointing at his fat belly (ironically, I'd wager a large portion of those pointing and laughing would look no better on a beach). If we would have been promoted then the squad Bruce assembled would have been smashed to pieces in the prem, promotion specialist Bruce would have ticked his box, done **** all in the PL and been sacked - pretty much my 1st post in this thread, we would be lumbered with jedinak, Whelan, adomah et al with 1 year remaining on their contracts, the loan players would have left, we would need 10 new players still That is not how you build a squad And for me you can forget AEG - Bruce didn't know what to do with him! Same goes for tuanzebe, good signing? Yes, but Not when he was playing RB under Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Bruce left El Ghazi out of the squad altogether, and he can't be praised for bringing in Abraham, just about every other manager in the division would have done the same given the chance, it wasn't if he was some unknown player that Bruce picked out of obscurity. Besides if his signings were that great, then it makes his failure to succeed with us all the more damming. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 37 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: How can you argue otherwise?! You guys talk about Bruce 'rewriting history' with his alleged media pals - jeezus christ, stones in glass houses n all that. He put together (and yes, probably underachieved with) the team that fell one game, one goal short of promotion 12 months ago, he then put the majority of the team together that won promotion this season. Sure, he failed to get probably even close to seeing the best of those squads, something that Smith seemingly showed up but to claim he didn't put good squads together is beyond crazy - it's simply untrue, opinions or otherwise. Amazes me the level of vitriol and bitterness still felt by some here regards SB, it's old news but you'd think he personally showed up on some posters' doorsteps today for his morning shit going off some of the crap written on here. Haha brilliant. We went on a club record winning spree to get promoted. That wasn't done because of Bruce's signings. We had to buy kalinic and bring steer back to fix that mess bruce left. We had to sign mings, hause and recall elphick to fix the mess bruce left. Yeah but bruce signed mcginn so lets bow down to him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: No, but it would mean you were shit at ordering food. And also knowing what to do with it once you had got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Whelan was largely terrible until Smith arrived so don't try and claim him. Don't try and claim Bruce signed Whelan? OK, who did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: If we would have been promoted then the squad Bruce assembled would have been smashed to pieces in the prem, promotion specialist Bruce would have ticked his box, done **** all in the PL and been sacked - pretty much my 1st post in this thread, we would be lumbered with jedinak, Whelan, adomah et al with 1 year remaining on their contracts, the loan players would have left, we would need 10 new players still That is not how you build a squad And for me you can forget AEG - Bruce didn't know what to do with him! Same goes for tuanzebe, good signing? Yes, but Not when he was playing RB under Bruce The point was that SB can’t recruit good players or build a good squad - not whether or not he used them effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, useless said: Bruce left El Ghazi out of the squad altogether, and he can't be praised for bringing in Abraham, just about every other manager in the division would have done the same given the chance, it wasn't if he was some unknown player that Bruce picked out of obscurity. Besides if his signings were that great, then it makes his failure to succeed with us all the more damming. Ahhhh - so if the signings were crap (Kalinic, Lansbury, Samba) then it's down to Bruce, but if they turned out to be decent (El Ghazi, Abraham, Tuanzebe) it wasn't down to Bruce at all. Gotcha. Edited July 15, 2019 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Just now, bannedfromHandV said: The point was that SB can’t recruit good players or build a good squad - not whether or not he used them effectively. The squad he left Smith with was a mess. And that was after 18 months of having more power in the transfer market than most of the league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Saying that he made good signings but just failed to use them to best effect is an equally damning statement. How pathetic a manager that signs players that he doesnt know how to use or get the best of. Yeah yeah, hes shit at his job but spends a lot of money and buys nice tools! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Ahhhh - so if the signings were crap (Kalinic, Lansbury, Samba) then it's down to Bruce, but if they turned out to be decent (El Ghazi, Abraham, Tuanzebe) it wasn't down to Bruce at all. Gotcha. I don't think any signing is down to just the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: I don't think any signing is down to just the manager. Completely agree. But if you're going to damn them when shit players are signed, then you should equally praise them when good players are signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Also, wasn't the narrative last season (or season before last) that we had a great squad and should have walked the league so only finishing in the playoffs was a massive failure? Well make your minds up folks, either he helped to assemble a great squad (in relative terms) and failed or he didn't assemble a great squad and I guess therefore overachieved in getting to the playoffs? Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, bobzy said: Don't try and claim Bruce signed Whelan? OK, who did? But he has a point Whelan was absolute garbage under Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: Also, wasn't the narrative last season (or season before last) that we had a great squad and should have walked the league so only finishing in the playoffs was a massive failure? Well make your minds up folks, either he helped to assemble a great squad (in relative terms) and failed or he didn't assemble a great squad and I guess therefore overachieved in getting to the playoffs? Which is it? I think people thought he under achieved with the squad he had, in my view that is fair. The squad he had compared to many in the Championship was very strong, that doesn't mean that he was good at signing players for the reasons I've already pointed out. So sorry, there isn't the contradiction you seek to point out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I don't think any signing is down to just the manager. Ah okay, guess we'll let him off the hook somewhat for Hogan then eh? Ah let me guess, that one was all Bruce but let's say McGinn, that was a club effort right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2019 Just now, bannedfromHandV said: Ah okay, guess we'll let him off the hook somewhat for Hogan then eh? Ah let me guess, that one was all Bruce but let's say McGinn, that was a club effort right? I gave Bruce credit for McGinn, you on the other hand opted to completely ignore the likes of Hogan instead focusing on the loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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