Zatman Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 I wonder if Bruce did that if we went up would he be praised by fans. Especislly as some people on here believe Rafa would play good football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: I wonder if Bruce did that if we went up would he be praised by fans. Especislly as some people on here believe Rafa would play good football Exactly my point. If Bruce did it and it kept us up he'd still be slaughtered by the same people who would slaughter him if we won the Championship playing as we do now (and again I think the "poor football" we currently play is vastly exaggerated on VT but that's for another thread) because apparently they value good football more than anything. Benitez's approach to staying up is much the same as Bruce's would be, or has been in the past. Don't get me wrong, again I do think benitez is a superior manager and is more clever about it than Bruce might be. But broadly speaking the approach is the same approach that people complain about Bruce taking. Focus on defence, keep it tight, don't let in many goals and nick one on the break if you can. it works, and I'm certain he got the best he could out of that squad last season by taking that approach. But it's interesting to say the least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 41 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I mean you joke, but it does make me laugh when people are desperate to get Benitez in to replace Bruce because the football would be better. Don't get me wrong, I would 100% have Benitez here (not that I think he would come) But the people thinking the football would be scintillating if we got promoted must not watch any Newcastle games. Horses for courses Stevo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Horses for courses Stevo. Meaning what in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Exactly my point. If Bruce did it and it kept us up he'd still be slaughtered by the same people who would slaughter him if we won the Championship playing as we do now (and again I think the "poor football" we currently play is vastly exaggerated on VT but that's for another thread) because apparently they value good football more than anything. Benitez's approach to staying up is much the same as Bruce's would be, or has been in the past. Don't get me wrong, again I do think benitez is a superior manager and is more clever about it than Bruce might be. But broadly speaking the approach is the same approach that people complain about Bruce taking. Focus on defence, keep it tight, don't let in many goals and nick one on the break if you can. it works, and I'm certain he got the best he could out of that squad last season by taking that approach. But it's interesting to say the least. I have to disagree with the majority of your hypothetical, third party speaking post. 2 very different managers. 2 very different syles of play. 1 much more successful than the other could dream to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I have to disagree with the majority of your hypothetical, third party speaking post. 2 very different managers. 2 very different syles of play. 1 much more successful than the other could dream to be. They're very different managers. Benitez is more successful. I've never suggested anything to the contrary. But the current style of play that Newcastle play is exactly what people like to complain about Bruce doing. In fact I'd argue it's far worse. Personally, my attitude has always been that "good football" is whatever gets the best out of your team. So I respect Benitez's current approach completely and I'd be happy if I were a Newcastle fan in the same way as I'd be happy if Villa played the most boring football imaginable but won every game 1-0 and walked the league. Good football is winning football. But there's no denying that currently Newcastle play defensive, cautious, negative football. And they do it bloody well. Edited August 27, 2018 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) Newcastle played different though in the championship they were quite good to watch. I’d taje Rafa over Bruce but I think like said people can’t complain about style of play Edited August 27, 2018 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Newcastle played different though in the championship they were quite good to watch. Absolutely they did, not denying that. And again not denying that I would 100% choose Rafa over Bruce. But right now Newcastle don't play like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 27, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: But the current style of play that Newcastle play is exactly what people like to complain about Bruce doing. In fact I'd argue it's far worse. The style played in some games, for example yesterday against, Chelsea - you're right. But he only does it when faced with demonstrably superior opposition. It's not "current" style, it's one off style in specific circumstances. It's not his default. I can't stand him, and wouldn't want him anywhere near VP, but this point I don't agree with at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2018 14 minutes ago, blandy said: The style played in some games, for example yesterday against, Chelsea - you're right. But he only does it when faced with demonstrably superior opposition. It's not "current" style, it's one off style in specific circumstances. It's not his default. I can't stand him, and wouldn't want him anywhere near VP, but this point I don't agree with at all. I think it is his default since he got Newcastle back to the prem. Again that's not a criticism. And maybe I'm influenced by usually only watching them for whole games when they play bigger teams. But they only scored 39 goals in the whole of last season so that would suggest they're certainly not an attacking team. He plays the way he needs to to get the most out of his team and full credit to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Apparently Jorginho played more passes that the entire Newcastle team, and had only 2% less possession than them But this is how Newcastle play the big teams. I respect it. It means they'll pick up the odd point as a bonus, and when they lose they rarely get hammered, keeping their goal difference decent, which could be important. It's really clever from Benitez. We could do with a manager with a safety first approach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 27, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 27, 2018 30 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: they only scored 39 goals in the whole of last season so that would suggest they're certainly not an attacking team. Fair comment - though I'd suggest it suggests they're not a very good team (in comparison with the league). Newly promoted sides are generally doing well to stay up and finish 17- 12th and score at a goal a game or so. Given he's not had much backing from their chump of an owner, you're right, full credit to the FSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, blandy said: Fair comment - though I'd suggest it suggests they're not a very good team (in comparison with the league). Newly promoted sides are generally doing well to stay up and finish 17- 12th and score at a goal a game or so. Given he's not had much backing from their chump of an owner, you're right, full credit to the FSW. Oh I agree. They're not a very good team. So to try and play like Man City with a squad like Newcastle United would be foolish. I think he's achieved what he's achieved by being hard to beat, winning a lot of the games they should be winning, and nicking the odd point against bigger opposition whilst keeping the goals down in the games they're not successful. I certainly don't think he's done it by playing what usually constitutes "attractive" football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 27, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Oh I agree. They're not a very good team....I think he's achieved what he's achieved by being hard to beat, winning a lot of the games they should be winning, and nicking the odd point against bigger opposition whilst keeping the goals down in the games they're not successful. I certainly don't think he's done it by playing what usually constitutes "attractive" football. That's fair enough, for sure. But for me their football is not like 59 minutes ago, blandy said: exactly what people like to complain about Bruce doing it's (to me) faster paced, more mobile, better movement, less cautious...etc. But each to their own view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, blandy said: it's (to me) faster paced, more mobile, better movement, less cautious...etc. But each to their own view You're possibly right, but I don't think the criticism of Bruce's style is usually so specific. It's usually just "Too defensive" "more attacking" "too cautious" etc all things that I think you could label Rafa's football with too. Again I'm not trying to suggest Bruce's style can't be criticised and Rafa's style can't be praised. I'm just suggesting the approach Rafa takes currently contains a lot of the same attributes that people label Bruce's supposed style with, rightly or wrongly. Edited August 27, 2018 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 27, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: You're possibly right, but I don't think the criticism of Bruce's style is usually so specific Also fair. It is my criticism, to be honest, but I probably personalised what is perhaps generally less specific. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 9 hours ago, Stevo985 said: But they only scored 39 goals in the whole of last season so that would suggest they're certainly not an attacking team. He plays the way he needs to to get the most out of his team and full credit to him. That is a fair comment and whilst I feel if he was backed by the chairman more they would have had a bit more attacking threat to them, As it stands he is having to make do with what he has and he is doing a remarkable job considering. I feel we would be seeing a different Newcastle HAD he been given significant backing and I feel they would be more of an attacking threat then what they can currently deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 8 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Again I'm not trying to suggest Bruce's style can't be criticised and Rafa's style can't be praised. I'm just suggesting the approach Rafa takes currently contains a lot of the same attributes that people label Bruce's supposed style with, rightly or wrongly. I think the difference is as mentioned already that Rafa has no choice but to play that way due to the limited resources available to him at Newcastle. Whereas Bruce is more stuck in his ways so to speak and sets his stall out in fear of losing generally, yet has various styles available to him but sticks with the same trugid style. Rafa Benithez has not got the c.v that he has from playing 'Bruceball' style football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Has a team ever had a tougher start to the season in terms of fixtures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 They're just happy to lie down and curl up into a ball against the big teams and hope they have mercy on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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