TRO Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said: The first post in the thread might give you the context to understand it! yeah...ok thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: Yes and if this season we don't get enough points it'll be relegation which will mean its a rubbish product because it'd have ended up in failure. It's simple as that really. This season is about staying up and points is what will achieve that so saying they are irrelevant is ridiculous. there I think you have some leeway, the first year back you have to accept at least some sort of inconsistency, its a bit unrealistic and unfair to say otherwise but at the same time you have to show positive glimpses of the future and how you could develop if you stayed up in your 3rd year of being in the PL though? if the aim is still just "to stay up" then I think you are within your rights to ask questions over value for money and decide to knock it on the head does our ST sales represent us being promoted or playing good football? last season's average of 36k was higher than 4 of the last 5 prem years when we were shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: No it isn’t, it just means people have a different thought process than you when deciding whether or not to buy the product. What is ridiculous is assuming everyone has to think the same way as you. So you are telling me that people have a thought process of a team that finished 5th in the championship last season don't see survival in the Premier League this season as a success, that's madness. 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: @Sam-AVFC yep my thoughts exactly if you want to spend £2000+ a year and lose a day of your week watching your team have 30% possession and 2 shots per game but scraping enough points to survive then that's up to you, personally based on my experience of following villa home and away during our 5 year decline and eventual drop I can categorically say that I don't the PL is not the be all and end all it is made out to be, I want to see villa do well and play good football not just accept our lot and join the happy to be there brigade that plagues the PL, fortunately with our current owners and set up that's not a problem we have, Newcastle on the other hand have blatantly adopted a stay up at all cost approach this season, if I was a Newcastle fan then I would not be parting with my money to watch it every week (id watch it on TV still obviously, there's a difference between being a fan and that level of commitment) End of the day for the realist this season is about survival, next season is about mid table and so on. Personally i want us to be successful if we play good football whilst doing it then great but how we go about being successful i don't care. Also if you think our owners don't have the default setting of just staying up then i think you're very much mistaken these are successful businessmen they will want to stay where the money is, you've got to remember they aren't fans. They'll say all the words we want to hear but when push comes to shove it'll be about staying up. Edited October 23, 2019 by Stuartc445 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: @Sam-AVFC yep my thoughts exactly if you want to spend £2000+ a year and lose a day of your week watching your team have 30% possession and 2 shots per game but scraping enough points to survive then that's up to you, personally based on my experience of following villa home and away during our 5 year decline and eventual drop I can categorically say that I don't the PL is not the be all and end all it is made out to be, I want to see villa do well and play good football not just accept our lot and join the happy to be there brigade that plagues the PL, fortunately with our current owners and set up that's not a problem we have, Newcastle on the other hand have blatantly adopted a stay up at all cost approach this season, if I was a Newcastle fan then I would not be parting with my money to watch it every week (id watch it on TV still obviously, there's a difference between being a fan and that level of commitment) they are not mutually exclusive.... We are playing some good football and not conceding oodles.......we need to tighten up a bit and remove mistakes, but the balance is fairly good. That's what makes a full house every week. Good football without points or points without good football, will not fill stadiums. I think we have proved that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) out of interest @Stuart_C445 have you got a season ticket and go to away games? I haven't anymore, obviously moved away but I gave it all up shortly after bruce joined (gave my ST away to someone else) Brentford away was my last game in the January, 2 days off work, coach down, drink in the 3 pubs on the corner of the ground, home about 1am, absolutely battered 3-0 in the rain, didn't want to do it anymore Edited October 23, 2019 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: So you are telling me that people have a thought process of a team that finished 5th in the championship last season don't see survival in the Premier League this season as a success, that's madness. As we’re still having completely different conversations, and I’m not sure you’ve read anything I wrote, we might as well end it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, TRO said: Good football without points or points without good football, will not fill stadiums. I think we have proved that now. I’m interested to know when you think we were playing good football without points? Not saying I have an issue with the overall point, I just can’t think of a time this would relate to! Can’t argue that a balance is always likely to attract the biggest crowds as (this thread shows well) everyone has differing motives and priorities when deciding whether to go to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: I’m interested to know when you think we were playing good football without points? Not saying I have an issue with the overall point, I just can’t think of a time this would relate to! Can’t argue that a balance is always likely to attract the biggest crowds as (this thread shows well) everyone has differing motives and priorities when deciding whether to go to games. We were playing some lovely stuff under RDM but won only 1 game against that seasons championship whipping boys. It could also be argued that at the start of our relegation season the football wasn't terrible but the results were and then it everything went to sh*t If we were to become successful it wouldn't matter 1 little bit the quality of football the ground would be sold out every game, Look at the MON years the football wasn't always brilliant but the ground was sold out more often than not. Edited October 23, 2019 by Stuartc445 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: I’m interested to know when you think we were playing good football without points? Not saying I have an issue with the overall point, I just can’t think of a time this would relate to! Can’t argue that a balance is always likely to attract the biggest crowds as (this thread shows well) everyone has differing motives and priorities when deciding whether to go to games. It was a generalisation. er ....Spurs and Arsenal away, Bournemouth after we conceded, West Ham, where we dropped 2 points.....I thought we had periods of playing well in those games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: if we were to become successful it wouldn't matter 1 little bit the quality of football the ground would be sold out every game, Look at the MON years the football wasn't always brilliant but the ground was sold out more often than not. disagree there, MONs counter attacking could beat anyone young exciting largely English players brand of football is very appealing to people, we were shit vs wigan every year but it was exciting all the same, there was always a danger we could do something too, get 4th, win a cup etc that's not what I meant when criticising Newcastle's lack of possession and shots, its pretty much the opposite I'll use a better example and throw in this current wolves team, they too sacrifice possession in a lot of games in order to play on the counter but look at the ambition of their owners, manager, players etc compared to Ashley and Bruce, its night and day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: disagree there, MONs counter attacking could beat anyone young exciting largely English players brand of football is very appealing to people, we were shit vs wigan every year but it was exciting all the same, there was always a danger we could do something too, get 4th, win a cup etc that's not what I meant when criticising Newcastle's lack of possession and shots, its pretty much the opposite I'll use a better example and throw in this current wolves team, they too sacrifice possession in a lot of games in order to play on the counter but look at the ambition of their owners, manager, players etc compared to Ashley and Bruce, its night and day Even newly promoted Sheffield United who play a similarly counterattacking style put Newcastle to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stuartc445 said: Yes and if this season we don't get enough points it'll be relegation which will mean its a rubbish product because it'd have ended up in failure. It's simple as that really. This season is about staying up and points is what will achieve that so saying they are irrelevant is ridiculous. Poppycock sir. Rubbish product? We'll see how things progress, but even if we go down I'm fairly sure I'll have enjoyed the season more than any of the last 8 or 9 years before Smith joined. The record breaking attendances and waiting lists seem to indicate it it's not just me who is also enjoying the football. Thank God Steve Bruce is at Newcastle and away from choking the life out of this club. Edited October 23, 2019 by Tomaszk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, TRO said: It was a generalisation. er ....Spurs and Arsenal away, Bournemouth after we conceded, West Ham, where we dropped 2 points.....I thought we had periods of playing well in those games I know it was and I agreed with your point on the basis a product that sets itself between the two extremes is likely to have a wider potential audience. See current Lib Dem support (weighted to acknowledge they normally do shite so are unlikely to ever actually have the most support). Fair play with those games, I just wasn’t sure whether you were referring to specific periods. @Stuartc445 - Di Matteo is a good example. I’d completely scrubbed that from my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Poppycock sir. Rubbish product? 1) We'll see how things progress, but even if we go down I'm fairly sure I'll have enjoyed the season more than any of the last 8 or 9 years before Smith joined. 2) The record breaking attendances and waiting lists seem to indicate it it's not just me who is also enjoying the football. Thank God Steve Bruce is at Newcastle and away from choking the life out of this club. 1) Enjoyed getting relegation wow i have no words for that. 2) Think you'll find that it the Premier League effect as i very much doubt we'd be having waiting lists in the championship regardless of the style of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 9 games in, and this season is already more enjoyable than the 4 seasons we stayed up with McLeish and Lambert. Even if we go down it would still be better. Staying up isn't the be all, end all for us. It either happens as a result of our quality and desire to win games, or we fall short despite that. We won't be grinding out every game trying to squeeze out 37 points like we used to do and Newcastle are currently doing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: 1) Enjoyed getting relegation wow i have no words for that. 2) Think you'll find that it the Premier League effect as i very much doubt we'd be having waiting lists in the championship regardless of the style of football. not sure if you are reading the posts properly... even if we get relegated this year the football we are playing and the players we have will make this season more enjoyable than the years we had under say McLeish, some of the lambert years even though we stayed up, definitely the Sherwood and Garde year, that's not hard to understand, watching shit football in a ground full of apathy with an owner who doesn't want to be there as we inevitably slip further and further towards being embarrassingly bad but staying up by the skin of our teeth was not enjoyable, not even slightly and like I said before we had a higher attendance last year than we had in the lambert and Sherwood / garde year so the premier league effect doesn't stand up to that I would rather get relegated watching smith's villa than stay up watching bruce's newcastle Edited October 23, 2019 by villa4europe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 And even if you manage to stay up by the skin of your teeth, all you're doing is delaying the inevitable unless you make some changes. Brighton are a good example. If Hughton stayed I would have had them as relegation certs, but they've given themselves a chance now playing attacking football. It still might not work out, but at least they're working towards something. If you try to grind out survival every year, you'll eventually drop as shown by us, Sunderland, West Brom, Stoke etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: not sure if you are reading the posts properly... even if we get relegated this year the football we are playing and the players we have will make this season more enjoyable than the years we had under say McLeish, some of the lambert years even though we stayed up, definitely the Sherwood and Garde year, that's not hard to understand, watching shit football in a ground full of apathy with an owner who doesn't want to be there as we inevitably slip further and further towards being embarrassingly bad but staying up by the skin of our teeth was not enjoyable, not even slightly and like I said before we had a higher attendance last year than we had in the lambert and Sherwood / garde year so the premier league effect doesn't stand up to that I would rather get relegated watching smith's villa than stay up watching bruce's newcastle What a strange world we live in Relegation is failure doesn't matter how you dress it up it's Failure, I hate failure and i MEAN Hate it i can't even contemplate Enjoying it, I am well and truly lost for words. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Keyblade said: And even if you manage to stay up by the skin of your teeth, all you're doing is delaying the inevitable unless you make some changes. Brighton are a good example. If Hughton stayed I would have had them as relegation certs, but they've given themselves a chance now playing attacking football. It still might not work out, but at least they're working towards something. If you try to grind out survival every year, you'll eventually drop as shown by us, Sunderland, West Brom, Stoke etc. what rubbish, Leicester stayed up by the skin of their teeth the season before they won the league and now look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: What a strange world we live in Relegation is failure doesn't matter how you dress it up it's Failure, I hate failure and i MEAN Hate it i can't even contemplate Enjoying it, I am well and truly lost for words. that's why I asked if you has a season ticket im not questioning supporting the team or being a fan obviously we all want us to be successful, im questioning committing the amount of money and time required to go watch your club every week if the football is shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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