Dafabet is our new official sponsor

[StanBalaban]

- get a sponsor that isn't dedicated to screwing people out of their money

 

 

An incorrect statement imo.

 

Bookmakers offer a form of entertainment. For every horse race, football bet, roulette spin, poker hand - there will be a winning customer - no doubt more. The entertainment part is trying to make that winner - you.

 

Screwing people out of money? Nah. They have a product and they sell it well. For me they are not screwing people any more than insurance companies, petrol stations, Asda, Local Pubs and even our beloved Aston Villa. At least with gambling you have a choice and there is no set price.

 

Personally I think it is disturbing that so many of you think gambling is the same as any other business. The same as a pub, a supermarket, a petrol station? 

 

You have to understand that there are good betting companies, pinnacle are a great company, they will accept big bets, they won't ban winners. Betfair is an excellent exchange. 

 

However, the vast, vast majority of gambling companies aren't interested in offering good odds. If you do win, they will ban you. They will use arbitrage to guarantee profits but ban you if you do the same. What's more they are more interested in weaning people onto casino games and onto poker where they have an in-built advantage and will make a guaranteed profit. That's what I mean when I said they are dedicated to screwing people out of money. 

 

To compare that to companies that offer essential services is incredibly wrong in my view. We need supermarkets, petrol stations, insurers. I'm sure there are plenty of people who dislike private companies on principle but these companies shouldn't be viewed the same way as the vast majority of gambling firms at all.

So not all gambling sites are the same - you mention Pinnacle and Betfair - but you know enough about Dafabet to say they're one of the 'evil ones'?

If you have proof about this particular company that aggrieves you then fair enough, but you've just stereotyped without any information at all.

Some pubs let you get pissed, have a fight and drive home. Ban them all, cos they're all the same surely?

[StanBalaban]

You've applied Socrates' logic thusly:

I got mugged by a ginger

Steve Sidwell is a ginger

Therefore Steve Sidwell is a mugger.

I mean, he mugged us for a few years for sure, but that was a mere coincidence.

[leviramsey]

Loans with high interest...but people have the freedom to choose whether to borrow from them, or to borrow at all, right? From the little I've read in the past few minutes they don't do loans for housing either so it's hard to argue, from my limited knowledge, that people who borrow from them genuinely need the money.

I genuinely struggle to understand why they are that bad, it's not like they coerce people into borrowing from them. Not trying to to elicit a response, I don't live in the UK and know next to nothing about Wonga.

I do not know Wonga, but they sound like a payday loan place here in the US. One of the big gripes with payday loans is they target poorer people and people who do not speak English in the hopes they will not understand exactly what they are getting into. We also have Title Loan places that take your car title as collateral and will repossess your car, which is often times more valuable than the value of the loan, if you fail to repay.

Free market a work. Hayek would be proud.

Interestingly enough, the biggest factor in the rise of title loan establishments has been various states' crackdown on payday lenders...

[briny_ear]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/addiction-soars-as-online-gambling-hits-2bn-mark-8468376.html

 

 

 

A huge increase in gambling addicts will make Britain's obsession with online betting a £2bn business. New evidence reveals that the number of people in danger of becoming problem gamblers has reached nearly a million, while hardcore addicts have doubled in six years to almost 500,000. 

The UK online gambling industry's value is expected to burst through the £2bn barrier for the first time in 2013, and over the next four years the European industry will grow by 34 per cent. Even in an age of austerity, business is booming. Ironically, the Government misses out on increased tax revenues that should come from this growth as the vast majority of big-name bookies are based overseas.

Case study: 'Gambling is all too easy to embark upon … The bookies always win' Jack Keylock, 22, came from a respectable family and had a good job, earning £25,000 a year. On Friday, thanks to online gambling, he began an 18-month prison sentence.Racked by debts run up online, Keylock from Cheltenham, resorted to burglary. In one raid he pilfered £35,000 of property, including watches and medals. Judge Jamie Tabor QC said at Gloucester Crown Court: "Gambling is all too easy to embark upon these days, probably because of the advertising on TV and the amount of internet gambling available to anyone unwise enough to make use of it. The bookies always win."

Edited June 19, 2013 by briny_ear

[Danwichmann]

 

 

 

- get a sponsor that isn't dedicated to screwing people out of their money

 

 

An incorrect statement imo.

 

Bookmakers offer a form of entertainment. For every horse race, football bet, roulette spin, poker hand - there will be a winning customer - no doubt more. The entertainment part is trying to make that winner - you.

 

Screwing people out of money? Nah. They have a product and they sell it well. For me they are not screwing people any more than insurance companies, petrol stations, Asda, Local Pubs and even our beloved Aston Villa. At least with gambling you have a choice and there is no set price.  

 

 

Personally I think it is disturbing that so many of you think gambling is the same as any other business. The same as a pub, a supermarket, a petrol station? 

 

You have to understand that there are good betting companies, pinnacle are a great company, they will accept big bets, they won't ban winners. Betfair is an excellent exchange. 

 

However, the vast, vast majority of gambling companies aren't interested in offering good odds. If you do win, they will ban you. They will use arbitrage to guarantee profits but ban you if you do the same. What's more they are more interested in weaning people onto casino games and onto poker where they have an in-built advantage and will make a guaranteed profit. That's what I mean when I said they are dedicated to screwing people out of money. 

 

To compare that to companies that offer essential services is incredibly wrong in my view. We need supermarkets, petrol stations, insurers. I'm sure there are plenty of people who dislike private companies on principle but these companies shouldn't be viewed the same way as the vast majority of gambling firms at all. 

 

 

I've seen all of this to be true while working for Coral. Customers who consistently win over 5% are effectively banned from betting in that bookies. Demos and tournaments are geared to getting people hooked on high margin games, especially roulette, and promotions are designed to get customers to either increase their stakes or reduce there odds. These are all explicit aims and often incentivised through most high street bookies.

 

I don't blame Villa for taking the sponsor they have, they have to take the best deal for the club. But I do have a major problem with the industry and believe the government need to bring in far more effective regulation and licencing.

[leviramsey]

I've seen all of this to be true while working for Coral. Customers who consistently win over 5% are effectively banned from betting in that bookies. Demos and tournaments are geared to getting people hooked on high margin games, especially roulette, and promotions are designed to get customers to either increase their stakes or reduce there odds. These are all explicit aims and often incentivised through most high street bookies.

 

I don't blame Villa for taking the sponsor they have, they have to take the best deal for the club. But I do have a major problem with the industry and believe the government need to bring in far more effective regulation and licencing.

Strangely enough, the only sportsbook I'm aware of without a reputation for taking action against winners (there's only been one reported case of a winner being booted, and it's in an account which has been accused of fictionalization beyond changing names etc.) is based out of effectively unregulated Curacao.

[Danwichmann]

 

I've seen all of this to be true while working for Coral. Customers who consistently win over 5% are effectively banned from betting in that bookies. Demos and tournaments are geared to getting people hooked on high margin games, especially roulette, and promotions are designed to get customers to either increase their stakes or reduce there odds. These are all explicit aims and often incentivised through most high street bookies.

 

I don't blame Villa for taking the sponsor they have, they have to take the best deal for the club. But I do have a major problem with the industry and believe the government need to bring in far more effective regulation and licencing.

Strangely enough, the only sportsbook I'm aware of without a reputation for taking action against winners (there's only been one reported case of a winner being booted, and it's in an account which has been accused of fictionalization beyond changing names etc.) is based out of effectively unregulated Curacao.

 

 

Yeah, as I say, they are effectively banned and not actually banned. In practice, they will be "X-graded" and have to get permission over the phone from head office to place any bet (even a small one) which prevents them from gambling normally, they be denied bets that they're likely to win or have a high liability for the company and be face restrictions on stake / ability to take price. 

[tomaspg]

if the reasoning for some people not to wear a shirt with gambling sponsors on, why would they play in the barclays premier league? its not like they are lending money to people to be charitable? and isnt banks the biggest gamblers? thats why our economy went to shit etc?

much in the same way, gambling companies arent here so you can make money, ofcourse the odds are going to be in their favour, people act like its some surprise

[leviramsey]

I've seen all of this to be true while working for Coral. Customers who consistently win over 5% are effectively banned from betting in that bookies. Demos and tournaments are geared to getting people hooked on high margin games, especially roulette, and promotions are designed to get customers to either increase their stakes or reduce there odds. These are all explicit aims and often incentivised through most high street bookies.

 

I don't blame Villa for taking the sponsor they have, they have to take the best deal for the club. But I do have a major problem with the industry and believe the government need to bring in far more effective regulation and licencing.

Strangely enough, the only sportsbook I'm aware of without a reputation for taking action against winners (there's only been one reported case of a winner being booted, and it's in an account which has been accused of fictionalization beyond changing names etc.) is based out of effectively unregulated Curacao.

 

Yeah, as I say, they are effectively banned and not actually banned. In practice, they will be "X-graded" and have to get permission over the phone from head office to place any bet (even a small one) which prevents them from gambling normally, they be denied bets that they're likely to win or have a high liability for the company and be face restrictions on stake / ability to take price.

By reputation, Pinnacle doesn't even do that (their mantra is that they want sharp bettors (including, presumably, people who know which games are fixed) betting tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds on games because that action lets them set more accurate lines).

The closest I came to testing that was netting $15,000 a year, mostly off of NFL sides and Ligue 1 totals, for a few years almost a decade ago. My limits were never cut (though my typical bet was nickel-to-dime, so I wasn't denting), but the tendency of the lines to move after my bets suggests that their traders had me profiled as sharp. then Pinny made their separate peace with los federales and exited the US market (though they did pay me... thankfully I was slow by a few months to withdraw so avoided the Neteller takedown!).

[Woodytom]

 We need supermarkets, petrol stations, insurers. 

 

 

Spot on - Thats why its outrageous they screw us with the prices they charge. My Gf works in insurance. Her job is to get people to pay as much money as they are willing to, regardless of what the price is.

 

You can gamble for any price you want on online gambling.

[Dale]

WoodyTom, you are aware that car insurance is one of the most loss making ventures out there? The vast majority of players pay out more than they bring in on a year on year basis - predominantly due to fees and whiplash fraud claims.

 

I work for an insurance company too, we make money (around 2% after everything), charge more than most but don't really dispute payouts nor seek to maximise profits - we don't, for example, have a load of add ons for our products aggressively sold.

[jimmygreaves]

WoodyTom, you are aware that car insurance is one of the most loss making ventures out there? The vast majority of players pay out more than they bring in on a year on year basis - predominantly due to fees and whiplash fraud claims.

 

I work for an insurance company too, we make money (around 2% after everything), charge more than most but don't really dispute payouts nor seek to maximise profits - we don't, for example, have a load of add ons for our products aggressively sold.

Out of curiosity, who do you work for? I work in the same industry. ...

[neil3241]

WoodyTom, you are aware that car insurance is one of the most loss making ventures out there? The vast majority of players pay out more than they bring in on a year on year basis - predominantly due to fees and whiplash fraud claims.

 

I work for an insurance company too, we make money (around 2% after everything), charge more than most but don't really dispute payouts nor seek to maximise profits - we don't, for example, have a load of add ons for our products aggressively sold.

 

I agree about the claim cluture, was reading an article in the week it adds £90 to each car policy in the UK. But to say companies 'loss' money is false. They pass the cost on. It's like running a book at a bookies, you pay out less than you take in. If you don't your running your 'book' incorrect.

[jimmygreaves]

WoodyTom, you are aware that car insurance is one of the most loss making ventures out there? The vast majority of players pay out more than they bring in on a year on year basis - predominantly due to fees and whiplash fraud claims.

 

I work for an insurance company too, we make money (around 2% after everything), charge more than most but don't really dispute payouts nor seek to maximise profits - we don't, for example, have a load of add ons for our products aggressively sold.

 

I agree about the claim cluture, was reading an article in the week it adds £90 to each car policy in the UK. But to say companies 'loss' money is false. They pass the cost on. It's like running a book at a bookies, you pay out less than you take in. If you don't your running your 'book' incorrect.

The profit margins on sold motor insurance policies is tiny. The majority of profit comes from selling additional products like legal expenses cover

[Woodytom]

WoodyTom, you are aware that car insurance is one of the most loss making ventures out there? The vast majority of players pay out more than they bring in on a year on year basis - predominantly due to fees and whiplash fraud claims.

 

I work for an insurance company too, we make money (around 2% after everything), charge more than most but don't really dispute payouts nor seek to maximise profits - we don't, for example, have a load of add ons for our products aggressively sold.

 

 

And?

 

You have just highlighted my point further that it is wrong to single out betting companies as rip - offs. The whole of society is at it.

 

You could argue that Insurance companies put there prices up to counter the false claims, but then you could argue the false claims are a result of high insurance cost.

 

Someone ran into the back of me - Over £1000 worth of damage. People have suggested that I could easily claim. But I just can not bring myself to do it, as there is/was nothing wrong with me. However, when my insurance company decided to put my price up from £960 - £985 after a no years claims bonus - It did cross my mind.

 

I may add that I went with another insurance company who were charging half that btw, so they are nor all that bad.

 

Daft thing is, when I rang up and said I am not happy to pay that price I got - Ok, lets see how much we can get off for you. My reply - You surely cant get anything off - you advertise good customer service on your website. Surely you have already offered me your best price?? Erm erm erm - yeah i think I will leave it mate. 

Edited June 22, 2013 by Woodytom

[neil3241]

 

 

WoodyTom, you are aware that car insurance is one of the most loss making ventures out there? The vast majority of players pay out more than they bring in on a year on year basis - predominantly due to fees and whiplash fraud claims.

 

I work for an insurance company too, we make money (around 2% after everything), charge more than most but don't really dispute payouts nor seek to maximise profits - we don't, for example, have a load of add ons for our products aggressively sold.

 

I agree about the claim cluture, was reading an article in the week it adds £90 to each car policy in the UK. But to say companies 'loss' money is false. They pass the cost on. It's like running a book at a bookies, you pay out less than you take in. If you don't your running your 'book' incorrect.

The profit margins on sold motor insurance policies is tiny. The majority of profit comes from selling additional products like legal expenses cover

 

 

And if they counldn't make it that way, the cost would be passed on through the motor insurance policy. How they bath the baby is their choice.

[Voinjama]

I have just read this thread from start to finish. :o :o :o

 

A very enjoyable 10 minutes.

[Ghost]

Dafabet's shirt deal with Aston Villa raises awareness in Asia

 

Interview with Dafabet's John Cruces - Head of Marketing, Operations and Sponsorships.

[KennyPowers]

Given we've sold out to a betting company again, interesting to note that Millwall turn down quickquid as sponsor 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/26/millwall-said-no-quickquid

 

And have made Prostate Cancer UK their main sponsor for free next season. 

 

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11735/8793450/Championship-Millwall-announce-charity-sponsorship-link-up-with-Prostate-Cancer-UK

 

I do get the general impression that the tide is turning a bit and clubs are getting a bit more sensitive about the brands they associate themsleves with.  

[KennyPowers]

 

 

 

You can gamble for any price you want on online gambling.

 

 

I'll have a grand on Djokovic to win Wimbledon at 10/1 then please