Drugs

[chrisp65]

I think there’s a genuine problem with ‘drugs’ that so much of it involves such extreme human misery at all stages of the process.

I’ve known plenty of fairly harmless people have kept their coke habit to a party once or twice a month or maybe once or twice a year. In between times, they can do their day job and be pleasant to people. But I’m not personally aware of any means of production or supply of cocaine that doesn’t involve some really grim people threatening others lives and causing absolute misery in society. 

Personally, a bit of a buzz over my mate’s house, would be slightly outweighed by the potential murder and poverty caused along the supply chain. 

I might be wrong on that, if someone knows of ethically sourced cocaine that would be a learning experience for me.

Pretty much anything else, from a bit of weed to anything synthetic, there’s a chance it was made by a hippy just outside Brecon (I’m discounting smack from my sweeping statement).

If you like a Friday night puff, you might have your own homegrown organic supply, or a mate with half n acre on the side of a farm might be growing various strains as a project waiting for legalisation to kick in. It’s not automatically and systematically been produced by killing a peasant farmer and then killing some small town police and then letting scooter gangs ride around slashing each other to pieces.

So, from that angle, I can see why people get very very worried about anyone stood at the top of that slippery slope of occasional social Charlie.

But then, I can also see that if something genuinely doesn’t harm others, then why would it be less legal than cigars or vodka. if you can get an arrangement whereby you literally go off in to the woods in October for what could be called ‘a bender’ in the old days. That you then come back, straight, on Monday and pencil in next October for the next excursion, is that so bad?

It’s just when in October, you say see you in a year, but then treat yourself to a little gift at Christmas, followed by New Year, followed by Tuesday, followed by lunchtime...

 

[Villan_of_oz]

7 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I understand her annoyance.

If my wife came home to me and told me she'd been smoking/doing drugs - I'd be well pissed off.

Not least because of my kids, but my wife used to smoke and I absolutely detested it.  Not because I don't like smoking or anything, but because in my head all I saw was us, 20 years down the line with her lying in a hospital bed dying of lung cancer and whilst I'd have to tell her how strong and amazing she is, I'd secretly be thinking "you've completely bought this on yourself and you're leaving me (and the kids) without you, yer bastard yer." 

Also, doesn't coke increase your chances of heart attacks by 450%? 

All that for a buzz that lasts 4/6 hours - don't seem to add up to me, but it's obviously popular stuff innit?

I've never had to take anything to make me have a good time, I feel for those that do (which is probably an inflammatory comment, but it's my truth). 

All good my friend, we all have different journeys in life doesn't mean any of them are wrong. I don't take offence to your comment at all.

If I, and I'm not going to so don't worry, went through my life story and told you all the details you may see a different view, but you also may not.

It's cool that you have never needed anything extra in life to enjoy it. I respect that, you probably didn't have to throw in the part about 'feeling for those that do' though, as I don't need your pity.

Your comment wasn't inflammatory just a bit ignorant, which may be inflammatory in itself, but its the truth

[Villan_of_oz]

18 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I think there’s a genuine problem with ‘drugs’ that so much of it involves such extreme human misery at all stages of the process.

I’ve known plenty of fairly harmless people have kept their coke habit to a party once or twice a month or maybe once or twice a year. In between times, they can do their day job and be pleasant to people. But I’m not personally aware of any means of production or supply of cocaine that doesn’t involve some really grim people threatening others lives and causing absolute misery in society. 

Personally, a bit of a buzz over my mate’s house, would be slightly outweighed by the potential murder and poverty caused along the supply chain. 

I might be wrong on that, if someone knows of ethically sourced cocaine that would be a learning experience for me.

Pretty much anything else, from a bit of weed to anything synthetic, there’s a chance it was made by a hippy just outside Brecon (I’m discounting smack from my sweeping statement).

If you like a Friday night puff, you might have your own homegrown organic supply, or a mate with half n acre on the side of a farm might be growing various strains as a project waiting for legalisation to kick in. It’s not automatically and systematically been produced by killing a peasant farmer and then killing some small town police and then letting scooter gangs ride around slashing each other to pieces.

So, from that angle, I can see why people get very very worried about anyone stood at the top of that slippery slope of occasional social Charlie.

But then, I can also see that if something genuinely doesn’t harm others, then why would it be less legal than cigars or vodka. if you can get an arrangement whereby you literally go off in to the woods in October for what could be called ‘a bender’ in the old days. That you then come back, straight, on Monday and pencil in next October for the next excursion, is that so bad?

It’s just when in October, you say see you in a year, but then treat yourself to a little gift at Christmas, followed by New Year, followed by Tuesday, followed by lunchtime...

 

You actually raise a very good point that puts me in an compromised position. I try and be a very ethical person in my shopping habits ..... Fair trade coffee, I'm vegetarian, try and buy local produce, support small business like the bakeries etc. You've raised an angle I hadn't thought of.

I hadn't thought of the 'cost' behind the product.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Villan_of_oz

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I've never had to take anything to make me have a good time, I feel for those that do.

I can agree with this. I’m not making out I’m angelic, or super moral, it’s just the very little bit I’ve done wasn’t worth the hassle and the planning and the whole scene. I might not turn down a smoke at a party, it would genuinely be 50/50 on the day if I was offered. But I just couldn’t be arsed to go and source something, or pay for it.

But for me, this might be linked to something about my wiring I really did discover quite late in life. I’d presumed everyone experienced music like I did. If I close my eyes and truly get in to a piece of music it can get quite psychedelic, proper colours and sensations. Laziest way of describing it would be ‘drunk’ with the drunk scene from Dumbo. It’s a crude comparison, but close enough. I’m like a **** human lava lamp. It’s kinda why, in my 50’s I’m still loathe to give up the whole live music gig experience.

Now, I also get a version of that from sex. I’ve genuinely had to learn some technique to stop myself getting a sex migraine. Going to the doctor about that was a story all on its own! They were actively looking for people with that condition and I was asked to be part of a sort of data gathering group on the subject. Turns out its a real and recognised condition. Mad. But yeah, basically, that last minute of sex, that kind of sends me tripping colours for a while.

So the absolute last thing I need, if I’m having sexy times or listening to music, the absolute last thing, would be to throw some mushrooms or pills or whatever in to the mix!

I’d never get back from that! I’d be like some burnt out hippy in some cliched movie.

Too much info?

[Villan_of_oz]

Not so much as defence as clarification, but I want to state, 3 times total in 15 years. All for fun.

In that time I found my partner dead in our bed (7 years ago)

Had my 2 grandparents killed in a car accident with my sister left with brain damage from the same accident (3 years ago)

That's just the major stuff, I have never turned to coke to get me through a tough time, Ive never relied on it.

I just like the buzz and being able to stay up till dawn playing darts....

[lapal_fan]

11 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

All good my friend, we all have different journeys in life doesn't mean any of them are wrong. I don't take offence to your comment at all.

If I, and I'm not going to so don't worry, went through my life story and told you all the details you may see a different view, but you also may not.

It's cool that you have never needed anything extra in life to enjoy it. I respect that, you probably didn't have to throw in the part about 'feeling for those that do' though, as I don't need your pity.

Your comment wasn't inflammatory just a bit ignorant, which may be inflammatory in itself, but its the truth

I get your point - I've had a relatively beige life.  No terrible trauma, a decent kinda carefree upbringing and supportive family.  I understand wholly that that is not the case for everyone (my dad being one). 

If my life was different, I wouldn't be the person I am now (same for everyone), maybe I'd need the pick-me-up to take myself away from my normal for a few hours. 

I don't get people who have had a similar path to myself, going up town on a Friday/Saturday and doing these things just to be "cool" I guess.  

 

[VILLAMARV]

I like your take @chrisp65, what room is there in that for the violent hippies? (Yes oxymoronic on a theoretical level but you get my point). Like I say, I like your take on it. 

In a similar vein what about gold or diamonds or even cash money in a world where we try and exist free from things involved in a usurious or destructive source and free from the horribleness of organised crime. 

Quite the challenge. And, I would say, a wholely admirable one. 

[Villan_of_oz]

10 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

I like your take @chrisp65, what room is there in that for the violent hippies? (Yes oxymoronic on a theoretical level but you get my point). Like I say, I like your take on it. 

In a similar vein what about gold or diamonds or even cash money in a world where we try and exist free from things involved in a usurious or destructive source and free from the horribleness of organised crime. 

Quite the challenge. And, I would say, a wholely admirable one. 

Just gotta strive to best the best human you can be....

[VILLAMARV]

1 minute ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Just gotta strive to best the best human you can be....

I very much agree, and wasn't attempting to dismiss anything playing a game of whataboutery.

 

[VILLAMARV]

Complicated though, the world of hidden costs.

[chrisp65]

12 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

I like your take @chrisp65, what room is there in that for the violent hippies? (Yes oxymoronic on a theoretical level but you get my point). Like I say, I like your take on it. 

In a similar vein what about gold or diamonds or even cash money in a world where we try and exist free from things involved in a usurious or destructive source and free from the horribleness of organised crime. 

Quite the challenge. And, I would say, a wholely admirable one. 

There’s always a chance a dolphin died for me to enjoy a tuna baguette from Boots. Similarly, there’s always the chance a tribe had their land burned from underneath them somewhere along the production line of that corned beef pasty.

There’s only so much you can do without going the full Ghandi. I’d suggest the cocaine is probably quite high on the negative impact scale, so it’s quite an easy one to cross off the shopping list. Certainly higher than driving a diesel car or using Amazon.

I’m lucky enough to be in a position where the ethics of blood diamonds isn’t something I have to worry about too often.

There have always been violent hippies. That is why we should kill all hippies. 

I try when I can to do the whole local shops, local produce, local holidays, support the artist, fair trade lifestyle. But money is a big driver there. You have to be comparatively wealthy to be quite such a beautiful person.

Not sticking powder up my nose is healthy, cost free, and good for the planet. So its a nice lazy win. A bit like not flying to the Med just to get pissed. Or slowing down when you drive.

Other opinions are available.

[VILLAMARV]

I hope it's clear I mostly agree. 

 

[mottaloo]

4 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

 

I don't get people who have had a similar path to myself, going up town on a Friday/Saturday and doing these things just to be "cool" I guess.  

 

Perhaps they hate the colour beige ? Or peer pressure ?

Not a pop at you by the way. I've never took recreational drugs or even smoked normal cigarettes so I'm clueless on what drugs do what and i guess I'm grateful for my naivety. 

[AVFCDAN]

There’s clearly a mid ground when it comes to drinking and drugs that’s fairly safe to operate in, I did so all throughout my 20s. Nights out, weekend benders, crawling in at 5am, doing stupid stuff, reckless with my money and I really don’t regret a second of it, so many amazing memories I’ll never forget and friendships that will last a lifetime, if that deserves someone’s pity then it’s massively misplaced in my opinion.

[lapal_fan]

11 hours ago, AVFCDAN said:

There’s clearly a mid ground when it comes to drinking and drugs that’s fairly safe to operate in, I did so all throughout my 20s. Nights out, weekend benders, crawling in at 5am, doing stupid stuff, reckless with my money and I really don’t regret a second of it, so many amazing memories I’ll never forget and friendships that will last a lifetime, if that deserves someone’s pity then it’s massively misplaced in my opinion.

It's not pity per se.

The point is, would those nights have been any less fun if you'd not have taken drugs which can and have taken lives on a "one night only" basis?

If not then, well.. different strokes for different folks innit.

But substances on the whole just seem a bit seedy, desperate (in some cases) and band wagon jumping ("woo look at me!").

Plus you have the trickle down effect @chrisp65 mentioned up thread of "somewhere down the line, some poor **** is getting absolutely shat on creating/selling this stuff".

If it was all legalised and controlled I wouldn't care a dot, it's the illegality of it and the connotations of gangstas, slums and general depression which I don't get on board with.

But if you spend your money on it, well that's your bag man.

Oddly, I've been out on "big nights/weekends out" too and I've never been bothered about other substances.

To be honest, I wouldn't even know where to look for them!

[Xann]

 

[PieFacE]

 

On 14/05/2020 at 08:46, lapal_fan said:

 

The point is, would those nights have been any less fun if you'd not have taken drugs which can and have taken lives on a "one night only" basis?

Yes. Drugs can be very fun, if you're in the right situation with the right people. It can be shit. It's never perfect but what is? But generally speaking, you can feel things or go to places mentally which simply aren't possible without them. 

Depends how you're wired as human I guess, I've always been curious and wanted to feel every possible feeling I could even if it was only once, and for the most part it has been awesome. (I had an incredibly bad experience on LSD which put me off any form of psychedelics forever). I'd never judge someone for not wanting to try everything, but I find it weird that people are so against it.

Drugs aren't like the media portray them, not in the slightest. They're not bad, they're not that addictive (including heroin and crack), you can very easily try it a few times and never touch it again.

The best things about drugs is listening to music you love.

[mjmooney]

14 hours ago, PieFacE said:

The best things about drugs is listening to music you love

I've had psilocybin mushrooms a few times (not for years now, mind), and they produced no visible hallucinations, but had a remarkable effect on how I heard music. The only way I can describe it is that I could hear every single instrument simultaneously, but as if they were completely separate (I know that makes no sense). It wasn't necessarily better than listening 'straight', but it was certainly different. Cannabis never had any noticeable effect on my music perception. 

These days I stick to alcohol, and I do notice a phenomenon that when I hit that 'sweet spot' of mild drunkenness, I have an overwhelming urge to listen to music - but where ALL my music is equally desirable, leaving me in an agony of indecision, as whatever I choose will preclude everything else. Exactly the same thing happens with books - I look at the bookshelf, and I want to read ALL of them, but I can only read one at a time. 

[A'Villan]

Quote

What is the most frightening thing you’ve encountered?

My own selfish behaviour. Watching and being forced to relive some of the stupid, selfish things I’ve done over and over before Ayahuasca will let me vomit them out. The spirits can be demanding and they can be very very frightening, but in the end it’s my own negativity, my own failures, my own stupidity, my own self-centeredness that provokes the greatest fear. And when the medicine tells me we’re going to be working on something related to that on a given night, well, many times I have tried my best to run away from the experience out of sheer terror.

Even though I love the above quote, I think it's really important for me to clarify that there should be no doubt that in posting this I am not advocating anyone takes street DMT. The above are words from a man who's experience with DMT is based upon and only upon taking this drug with very experienced guides who are respected and wise in their community, their people have used DMT for many generations. Don't think scoring DMT on the street is a good idea, while it's not addictive, that's not the danger with DMT. The reason why the question that was put to this man has the phrase 'most frightening' in it, is because DMT is possibly the most intensely frightening drug there is. Do not underestimate it. Do not overestimate your ability to handle it.

Edited June 21, 2020 by A'Villan

[maqroll]

My view on cocaine is that it's no worse than alcohol if you can't control your use. I think it should be fully legal, taxed and regulated so that the purity standard is 100%, and the criminality around the importation of the drug is eliminated. Let adults decide for themselves. Put limits on quantity so people can't buy the store out, but let people ingest what they want.