What is "The Government, The Law, Politics, Society Money etc

[snowychap]

Does the part of my post you didn't quote not explain my view sufficiently?

No. It may deal with the second part of the question but I don't see how it deals with the first.

[Awol]

 

 

 

Society - all people within a defined geographical area who mutually identify with each other by nationality as a distinct group.

What about those people within that defined geographical area who don't see their nationality (or the nationality of others) as the basis for being part of a 'distinct group' or, indeed, other nationals in that area?

 

Having spent the last 3 plus years living overseas I'm conscious that although I live in a society I am certainly not of it,

 

Why? Because of your nationality?

That and having cultural beliefs (values) that are essential alien to the society in which I live.

[legov]

As I said, self-identification. But for government officials, city planners and the like, I suspect their definition of "society" is a tad different from yours, especially in places with substantial foreign populations.

[snowychap]

In retrospect perhaps shared culture and values should also be added to nationality as components of what a society means.

I don't see that people don't exist in any number of societies simultaneously (like some global, multidimensional venn diagram perhaps).

I think the problem that I have with your definition (even the amended one) is that it appears to be allocating people to a single (physical) society based upon a principle of exclusion of others (or them themselves) - whether that be arbitrary physical land borders, differing cultures or differing values.

Surely society is about relationships and those are things which bring people (and things) together rather than keep them apart?

Edited May 31, 2013 by snowychap

[Awol]

As I said, self-identification. But for government officials, city planners and the like, I suspect their definition of "society" is a tad different from yours, especially in places with substantial foreign populations.

 

Not entirely, if you asked an Omani whether I - or any foreigner - was part of their society, you'd receive an emphatic "no". That is the same all over the Middle East. As for substantial foreign populations, over a third of the people in this country are expatriates so you're wrong on that too and discrimination against foreigners is active government policy.

 

Anyway, time for some other people's definitions...

[legov]

 

As I said, self-identification. But for government officials, city planners and the like, I suspect their definition of "society" is a tad different from yours, especially in places with substantial foreign populations.

 

Not entirely, if you asked an Omani whether I - or any foreigner - was part of their society, you'd receive an emphatic "no". That is the same all over the Middle East. As for substantial foreign populations, over a third of the people in this country are expatriates so you're wrong on that too and discrimination against foreigners is active government policy.

 

Anyway, time for some other people's definitions...

 

In general.

 

And I accept that I might be wrong. My assertion about foreigners was a reasoned guess based on what I know about the society I live in now (Singapore, with its 45-50% foreign population) as well as the attitudes of governments towards foreigners in other countries.

 

Nevertheless, definitions of "society" that include foreigners do exist, and are in wide use.

Edited May 31, 2013 by legov

[legov]

Surely society is about relationships and those are things which bring people (and things) together rather than keep them apart?

 

I find that things that bring people together often keep groups apart as well. Cultural issues, for instance.

[snowychap]

 

Surely society is about relationships and those are things which bring people (and things) together rather than keep them apart?

 

I find that things that bring people together often keep groups apart as well. Cultural issues, for instance.

 

The problem there is one of permanent exclusivity, though, isn't it?

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

As I said, self-identification. But for government officials, city planners and the like, I suspect their definition of "society" is a tad different from yours, especially in places with substantial foreign populations.

 

Not entirely, if you asked an Omani whether I - or any foreigner - was part of their society, you'd receive an emphatic "no". That is the same all over the Middle East. As for substantial foreign populations, over a third of the people in this country are expatriates so you're wrong on that too and discrimination against foreigners is active government policy.

 

Anyway, time for some other people's definitions...

 

Thank you for your participation, and your right, it would be nice for other people to explain their definitions of these abstract inventions. I do hope though that maybe a little bit of curiosity has been raised as to what such entities really are defined as, you may be very surprised with what answers you find if you dig a little.

 

maybe the lack of response is because most people have never actually though of what thier definition is of such things but with out your own definition of what they are how can you express opinions on and thoughts about them

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

 

As I said, self-identification. But for government officials, city planners and the like, I suspect their definition of "society" is a tad different from yours, especially in places with substantial foreign populations.

 

Not entirely, if you asked an Omani whether I - or any foreigner - was part of their society, you'd receive an emphatic "no". That is the same all over the Middle East. As for substantial foreign populations, over a third of the people in this country are expatriates so you're wrong on that too and discrimination against foreigners is active government policy.

 

Anyway, time for some other people's definitions...

 

In general.

 

And I accept that I might be wrong. My assertion about foreigners was a reasoned guess based on what I know about the society I live in now (Singapore, with its 45-50% foreign population) as well as the attitudes of governments towards foreigners in other countries.

 

Nevertheless, definitions of "society" that include foreigners do exist, and are in wide use.

 

I've high lighted the bit in bold, because obviously they do exist. as almost (but with some exceptions) anyone no matter what nationality they are currently residing in the uk, living and working under the jurisdiction of it's statutes are part of a society,

[snowychap]

maybe the lack of response is because most people have never actually though of what thier definition is of such things but with out your own definition of what they are how can you express opinions on and thoughts about them

If your purpose is to excite curiosity in a subject and advance a discussion on it then I don't see much point in excluding those who don't begin from a preconceived position (at least in terms of some sort of 'definition'). Edited May 31, 2013 by snowychap

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

maybe the lack of response is because most people have never actually though of what thier definition is of such things but with out your own definition of what they are how can you express opinions on and thoughts about them

If your purpose is to excite curiosity in a subject and advance a discussion on it then I don't see much point in excluding those who don't begin from a preconceived position (at least in terms of some sort of 'definition').

 

Of course you're right, but i think finding people without preconceived ideas would be pretty difficult, even if those preconcieved ideas have been ingrained into them rather than arrived at individually, In fact people free from preconceived ideas would be a lovely way for the world to be. I'll confess a little of why i have posed these question,

 

Upon trying to find out from close friends and relatives their perceived definitions i was amazed at the various responses including close-mindedness hostility, ridicule, indifference and disbelief at my definitions, Even when I was very simply, able to prove theirs to be misguided and offered the reason and research that led to mine

 

I guess I'm hoping a pretty anonymous forum (which i believe contains a reasonable variable of people, and quite a few capable of fair, open minded and reasoned thought) might be a more fertile ground for examination and discussion on the subject of how so much that people believe is true is actually a fiction, but I guess if you don't know what people perceive as the truth you can't be sure if they indeed define things in a incorrect way, It's pretty confusing when you start to discover truths you believed and adhered to are in fact fictions, maybe a debate can be of help to reorientated myself and come to terms with the reality of the situation, I hope that helps explain my thought process.

Edited May 31, 2013 by mockingbird_franklin

[snowychap]

It hasn't really explained your thought process, no.

Have I misunderstood what you've written because it seems that you've come to the conclusion that your 'definition(s)' are 'the truth'?

[legov]

I think you need to expound on your experiences a little more details details!

[peterms]

...the subject of how so much that people believe is true is actually a fiction, but I guess if you don't know what people perceive as the truth you can't be sure if they indeed define things in a incorrect way, It's pretty confusing when you start to discover truths you believed and adhered to are in fact fictions...

Ceaseless repetition of lies plays a big part in confusing people.

 

Here's an example of a discussion about Iran, nuclear weapons, and how we are relentlessly lied to by politicians and the media about whether Iran has or wants nuclear weapons.  It's just one that I came across today, and many other examples can be found on other subjects.

 

In the face of that kind of unwavering distortion, unless people have the time and inclination to seek out other perspectives, what they come to accept as unquestioned fact will very probably simply reflect what they have been told over and over again.

 

[chrisp65]

all governments are liars and murderers

 

keep that in mind and you won't stray too far wrong

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

...the subject of how so much that people believe is true is actually a fiction, but I guess if you don't know what people perceive as the truth you can't be sure if they indeed define things in a incorrect way, It's pretty confusing when you start to discover truths you believed and adhered to are in fact fictions...

Ceaseless repetition of lies plays a big part in confusing people.

 

Here's an example of a discussion about Iran, nuclear weapons, and how we are relentlessly lied to by politicians and the media about whether Iran has or wants nuclear weapons.  It's just one that I came across today, and many other examples can be found on other subjects.

 

In the face of that kind of unwavering distortion, unless people have the time and inclination to seek out other perspectives, what they come to accept as unquestioned fact will very probably simply reflect what they have been told over and over again.

 

A pretty good example of conditioning in order to get a a falsehood or fiction accepted as fact, but in reality it isn't really much like so many things I have mentioned, like the government, law money society and so many others it would be tedious for myself to make anything like a comprehensive list, and likely tedious for any reading it, These have had generations to ingrain themselves into peoples minds, that's why when they are pointed out disbelief is a common reaction, denial of this disbelief is where defending these falsehoods and fictions as fact often takes over and other reactions surface, after all who wants to admit they've been scammed and conned into accepting fictions as truth and repeating them, ignorance can and is bliss for some people, they don't like it taken away.

 

However many operate at a day to day level also, these are the ones we usuallt have the misfortune to be exposed to, but these are supported by the framework the bigger fictions surrounding what government etc creates

 

A good example of an ingrained fiction being so easily accepted as fact is in regard to a corporation mentioned in your report namely the BBC and the nature of it' legal standing and ownership, ask people who owns the BBC,. I was amazed how nearly everyone I asked got it wrong and wouldn't believe it's true nature until I proved it with evidence, even though it's name actually leads you it's status.