What is "The Government, The Law, Politics, Society Money etc

[mockingbird_franklin]

VT is often full of debate, opinions and comment. lots of it fun, some jokingly tongue in cheek and plenty of it passionate opinion and belief, Having been here for quite some time, one thing that seems to create the most passionate and heated discussion away from the main Villa Topic forum is in threads concerning Government, and politics, Recently I have had the fortune to have plenty of time on my (I've had surgery and am undergoing a long recuperation) hands and in an inquisitive enough mind to ponder some questions, and this allied with a want to research and unearth truth about how and why we are governed, how it works in practice.

 

This research has actually lead me to now have so many of the perceptions I previously held now be held in total and absolute question.

 

Anyhow I'm not hear to present what I have discovered though research, as I am currently trying to verify as much of what Has been presented to me but to ask other for definitions of organsisations that determine so much about our life

 

So please feel free to supply your definitions of some all all of the following as is your want, if you want provide your believed meaning to anything you also think you'd like to provide definition of as you belive it to be relevent to this thread please do so

 

But really what is your perceived definition and role of things such as the Law, Government, Sovereignty, Politics, Money,  Courts etc?

 

I will add my definition of many of these things at a later date, mainly because I've yet to comprehensively write many of these things down, but what I would hope to achieve is to to see how peoples perceived definition varies from ones derived from a researched informed view point, which i believe I am currently in the process of attaining

 

So please, over to you

 

Thanks in advance MB

Edited May 31, 2013 by mockingbird_franklin

[Ingram85]

What is the overall purpose of gaining all of our opinions on such things? All sounds very odd and weird so let me tell you where I'm at.....

 

[StefanAVFC]

For the lack of a closing quotation mark

 

[AVFCforever1991]

[Awol]

In a UK context - and from the hip:

 

Society - all people within a defined geographical area who mutually identify with each other by nationality as a distinct group.

 

Law - the rules arrived at by consent which govern the behaviour of the society

 

Sovereignty - the ability of a society to exclusively make and strike down the laws by which it is governed

 

Government - the elected structures (assuming that the Civil Service serves the Government and is not an intrinsic part of it) by which laws are made and removed

 

Courts - the vehicle through which laws are applied

 

Politics - any and all discourse relating to the business of Government

 

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

I actually don't care about anyone who has an 'unresearched' opinion. People who sprout off without doing research are absolute clearings in the woods.

[mockingbird_franklin]

For the lack of a closing quotation mark

 

Thanks for pointing out my punctuational error, so now it's corrected are you satisfied enough to partake?

[Awol]

I actually don't care about anyone who has an 'unresearched' opinion. People who sprout off without doing research are absolute clearings in the woods.

Haha, oh dear. May as well close this site now then.

[Dr_Pangloss]

 

I actually don't care about anyone who has an 'unresearched' opinion. People who sprout off without doing research are absolute clearings in the woods.

Haha, oh dear. May as well close this site now then.

 

Not really, there's quite a lot of informed opinions on here.

[StefanAVFC]

 

For the lack of a closing quotation mark

 

Thanks for pointing out my punctuational error, so now it's corrected are you satisfied enough to partake?

 

 

No.

 

[mockingbird_franklin]

I actually don't care about anyone who has an 'unresearched' opinion. People who sprout off without doing research are absolute clearings in the woods.

This Is a very valid point of view, unfortunately how do you know if someone has an unresearched opinion, obviously if you can get them to express their perceived definition you can understand how close that is to a researched definition.

 

unfortunately people often defend their perceived definitions against researched and informed definitions based on ignorance. I include myself in that statement, hence why I've decided to research things i perceived, ignorance is not bliss

 

So to surmise I'm trying to ascertain how people perceived definitions often garnered from positions of ignorance, like mine previously did, vary from a reasoned researched one. through curiosity and a sense things weren't actually as they have been presented to me i opened my eyes and was amazed by what I discovered.

 

 

For the lack of a closing quotation mark

 

Thanks for pointing out my punctuational error, so now it's corrected are you satisfied enough to partake?

 

 

No.

 

 

lol

[peterms]

Law - the rules arrived at by consent which govern the behaviour of the society

 

 

Sounds like a bloody hippy commune.  Pull yourself together, man!

 

More like "rules which have been made according to a known and recognised process and which can be enforced through compulsion exercised by the state".  Which rules out the whim of an agent of the state, but doesn't depend on this wishy-washy notion of consent.

[snowychap]

Society - all people within a defined geographical area who mutually identify with each other by nationality as a distinct group.

What about those people within that defined geographical area who don't see their nationality (or the nationality of others) as the basis for being part of a 'distinct group' or, indeed, other nationals in that area?

[Awol]

 

Society - all people within a defined geographical area who mutually identify with each other by nationality as a distinct group.

What about those people within that defined geographical area who don't see their nationality (or the nationality of others) as the basis for being part of a 'distinct group' or, indeed, other nationals in that area?

 

What about your opinion?

[snowychap]

What about your opinion?

What does that have to do with me asking a question about your perceived definition of something?

[Awol]

 

Society - all people within a defined geographical area who mutually identify with each other by nationality as a distinct group.

What about those people within that defined geographical area who don't see their nationality (or the nationality of others) as the basis for being part of a 'distinct group' or, indeed, other nationals in that area?

 

I'm sure those people have their own views of what constitutes "society", so you'd have to ask them I suppose. Maybe the one's who liked your reply but didn't comment might be a good place to start? Having spent the last 3 plus years living overseas I'm conscious that although I live in a society I am certainly not off it, and that has probably shaped my view somewhat regarding the practical over the conceptual of what a society is. So, what is your definition of the various areas the OP was asking about, or are you just intending to question others on their views?

[snowychap]

I'm sure those people have their own views of what constitutes "society", so you'd have to ask them I suppose.

I didn't ask you what other people thought; I asked you about your definition, especially about those whom it excluded.

...are you just intending to question others on their views?

It depends how the mood takes me.

 

Edited May 31, 2013 by snowychap

[Awol]

 

I'm sure those people have their own views of what constitutes "society", so you'd have to ask them I suppose.

I didn't ask you what other people thought; I asked you about your definition, especially about those whom it excluded.

 

Does the part of my post you didn't quote not explain my view sufficiently?

[Awol]

In retrospect perhaps shared culture and values should also be added to nationality as components of what a society means. Should individuals transgress the laws that govern a society they are in effect putting themselves beyond society, hence their physical removal and separation from it through incarceration. 

[legov]

 

 

Society - all people within a defined geographical area who mutually identify with each other by nationality as a distinct group.

What about those people within that defined geographical area who don't see their nationality (or the nationality of others) as the basis for being part of a 'distinct group' or, indeed, other nationals in that area?

 

Having spent the last 3 plus years living overseas I'm conscious that although I live in a society I am certainly not of it,

 

Why? Because of your nationality? I have never heard of a definition like that. Although I guess to a certain extent it is about self-identification, so I can see where you're coming from.

 

A quick google brought up this - "The aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community."

 

I personally would change it slightly, to "The aggregate of people interacting together in a more or less ordered community" - because you don't always have to live with the people who are in the same society as you (for example, the oft-cited "Muslim society")

 

It's a bit nebulous, but that's often inevitable when we're talking about abstract ideas. "British society" in this case would refer to the people living in Britain, including people of other nationalities, because they're all living in the same community and interacting with each other. "Judaeo-Christian society" might, going by this definition, refer to people who've been influenced heavily by Judaeo-Christian culture and history, but they don't have to live in the same area.

 

As I said, it's about self-identification to some extent, but I'm still baffled as to why "foreigners" are excluded from your definition. If I wanted to refer to natives, I could say "native society" or "Native British society" or "non-immigrant society" (though that sounds a little derogatory). Like its synonym "community" it's a word that's so vague, a lot depends on the adjective that comes before it for clarification.