Stadium Redevelopment Stalls.

[Kingfisher]

It should have been the first thing Randy did when he arrived, certainly ahead of the training ground and the Holte End pub. Had he done so we could have benefited from increased revenue from greater gate receipts during the 3 decent years under O'Neill when the average attendance was growing every year and even reached 40k. Had he done it then we would have had a higher average and could have cashed in on greater numbers of away fans all helping to increase our revenue.

But he didn't and now the plans are dead much like Lerner's interest in the team, just another of his many mistakes.

I'm sure the improvements to the stadium and around it were not that expensive. But we spent a lot of money on players, and it was that which in turn brought the crowds in. And it was that which was probably the biggest prohibative financial factor in not spending on the stadium, if we want to get into either or debates about where money should have been spent.

Edit - and I believe the training ground absolutely needed to be finished and to a good standard before we commenced on any other building project.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Kingfisher

[Phumfeinz]

I really just want them to improve/clean up the facade of the stand. It's disgustingly grotty and looks like a council estate building. It's embarrassing. 

[CI]

We didn't regularly sell out under MON though

[Kingfisher]

We didn't regularly sell out under MON though

Which is another factor as to why spending the money in that area was probably not the best thing to do IMO. It's probably still not the best thing to do, but it's a situation that should be constantly assessed.

[CI]

What's our current av attendance ? 35k ??

What we don't need is more empty seats every week

15k empty seats we'd start to look like Middlesborough

[PaulC]

What's our current av attendance ? 35k ??

What we don't need is more empty seats every week

15k empty seats we'd start to look like Middlesborough

 

Yes I agree, and comparing us with other clubs who are expanding their grounds who sell out their matches regularly isn't valid. The time to expand was under Oneill when we averaged 40k for the first time in my life time. Although we have the fan base our fans are quite selective. We used to get 60k for the big games and next game against say Charlton we'd have 12k there. We cant just expand the ground for Man united, Liverpool etc

[The Fun Factory]

What's our current av attendance ? 35k ??

What we don't need is more empty seats every week

15k empty seats we'd start to look like Middlesborough

Well yes- but our attendances for the last 4/5 games shot up, which does show the potential support for Villa. I mean we went from 30k v West Ham to over 38 k QPR. It's the club's task to get the 'floater' fan coming more at the Villa. If that ever did happen, then there could be a case for a new stand. How we do this than other having a good side and/or cheaper tickets, I do not know.

[The_Rev]

It should have been the first thing Randy did when he arrived, certainly ahead of the training ground and the Holte End pub. Had he done so we could have benefited from increased revenue from greater gate receipts during the 3 decent years under O'Neill when the average attendance was growing every year and even reached 40k. Had he done it then we would have had a higher average and could have cashed in on greater numbers of away fans all helping to increase our revenue.

 

But he didn't and now the plans are dead much like Lerner's interest in the team, just another of his many mistakes.

 

 

I don't agree with that at all.   Bodymoor Heath was famously a shithole, it led to a rather high profile fall out between John Gregory and Doug and it really needed bringing up to scratch.  The training ground is where everybody from the youth team to the first team squads do most of their work, it is one of the most important facilities a club has and it should be as good as possible.  Having indoor pitches in a country with weather as shitty as ours was a good investment. 

 

As for the North Stand?  Yeah, it is a bit tatty and yeah, it looks out of place with the rest of the stadium but would we fill the seats?  This isn't like decorating the living room in your house because it hasn't been done for a few years and every other room has.

 

We have planning permission to take Villa Park to 50,000 and building a new stand which takes the capacity to something lower than 50k seems like a waste of time and money if you ask me.  We have always been a 35k club, we get 40k if the team are doing well and the ground holds that.  Would dropping £20m on a new stand see us sell out Villa Park every week?  I can't see it.   I'd say we need to be looking at getting and retaining 30,000 season ticket holders before seriously thinking about expanding.  We get nowhere near that at the moment. 

[TrentVilla]

We didn't regularly sell out under MON though

 

The attendances were rising steadily peaking at an average of 40k for one season, had we had the capacity to sell more seats for a number of fixtures throughout that season the average attendance would have been far higher.

 

This is all a pointless debate now though, the ground isn't going to be extended and we won't get back to having a 40k average attendance for a long time. In fact I doubt we will achieve it again during Lerner's time at the club.

[DelboyVilla]

This hasn't stalled as it was just another one of Lerners pipe dreams a bit like CL football. He just hasn't the balls to see any of this through.

[TrentVilla]

 

It should have been the first thing Randy did when he arrived, certainly ahead of the training ground and the Holte End pub. Had he done so we could have benefited from increased revenue from greater gate receipts during the 3 decent years under O'Neill when the average attendance was growing every year and even reached 40k. Had he done it then we would have had a higher average and could have cashed in on greater numbers of away fans all helping to increase our revenue.

 

But he didn't and now the plans are dead much like Lerner's interest in the team, just another of his many mistakes.

 

 

I don't agree with that at all.   Bodymoor Heath was famously a shithole, it led to a rather high profile fall out between John Gregory and Doug and it really needed bringing up to scratch.  The training ground is where everybody from the youth team to the first team squads do most of their work, it is one of the most important facilities a club has and it should be as good as possible.  Having indoor pitches in a country with weather as shitty as ours was a good investment. 

 

As for the North Stand?  Yeah, it is a bit tatty and yeah, it looks out of place with the rest of the stadium but would we fill the seats?  This isn't like decorating the living room in your house because it hasn't been done for a few years and every other room has.

 

We have planning permission to take Villa Park to 50,000 and building a new stand which takes the capacity to something lower than 50k seems like a waste of time and money if you ask me.  We have always been a 35k club, we get 40k if the team are doing well and the ground holds that.  Would dropping £20m on a new stand see us sell out Villa Park every week?  I can't see it.   I'd say we need to be looking at getting and retaining 30,000 season ticket holders before seriously thinking about expanding.  We get nowhere near that at the moment. 

 

 

I wasn't saying that the training ground didn't require work, clearly it did. What I said was that he should have done the North stand ahead not instead of BMH. Increasing the capacity of VP could raise additional income and while it would take larger capital expenditure it would have been spending that produced a direct return. The spending on BMH although necessary was never going to provide such a return.

 

It is just an example of the short sighted ownership of Lerner in the early years where it was all spend spend spend with little or no thought into sustainability or towards ensuring spending was sustainable through revenue.

 

People will say this is being wise after the event but it is what I was saying when he arrived at the club and have always said, he got it wrong almost as soon as he arrived.

 

The training ground needed doing but it would have been far more wise to spend on the ground first or before spending quite so much on the team.

[The_Rev]

 

 

It should have been the first thing Randy did when he arrived, certainly ahead of the training ground and the Holte End pub. Had he done so we could have benefited from increased revenue from greater gate receipts during the 3 decent years under O'Neill when the average attendance was growing every year and even reached 40k. Had he done it then we would have had a higher average and could have cashed in on greater numbers of away fans all helping to increase our revenue.

 

But he didn't and now the plans are dead much like Lerner's interest in the team, just another of his many mistakes.

 

 

I don't agree with that at all.   Bodymoor Heath was famously a shithole, it led to a rather high profile fall out between John Gregory and Doug and it really needed bringing up to scratch.  The training ground is where everybody from the youth team to the first team squads do most of their work, it is one of the most important facilities a club has and it should be as good as possible.  Having indoor pitches in a country with weather as shitty as ours was a good investment. 

 

As for the North Stand?  Yeah, it is a bit tatty and yeah, it looks out of place with the rest of the stadium but would we fill the seats?  This isn't like decorating the living room in your house because it hasn't been done for a few years and every other room has.

 

We have planning permission to take Villa Park to 50,000 and building a new stand which takes the capacity to something lower than 50k seems like a waste of time and money if you ask me.  We have always been a 35k club, we get 40k if the team are doing well and the ground holds that.  Would dropping £20m on a new stand see us sell out Villa Park every week?  I can't see it.   I'd say we need to be looking at getting and retaining 30,000 season ticket holders before seriously thinking about expanding.  We get nowhere near that at the moment. 

 

 

I wasn't saying that the training ground didn't require work, clearly it did. What I said was that he should have done the North stand ahead not instead of BMH. Increasing the capacity of VP could raise additional income and while it would take larger capital expenditure it would have been spending that produced a direct return. The spending on BMH although necessary was never going to provide such a return.

 

It is just an example of the short sighted ownership of Lerner in the early years where it was all spend spend spend with little or no thought into sustainability or towards ensuring spending was sustainable through revenue.

 

People will say this is being wise after the event but it is what I was saying when he arrived at the club and have always said, he got it wrong almost as soon as he arrived.

 

The training ground needed doing but it would have been far more wise to spend on the ground first or before spending quite so much on the team.

 

 

 

I'm not sure the North Stand would have provided a return though.  That is where we seem to disagree.  I don't think anybody can argue there won't be games during a season where we couldn't get 50,000 into Villa Park if the stadium allowed it.  Opening day, boxing day, final home game, the visits of Small Heath, Liverpool and Manchester United all have the potential for that (btw, why do people clamour to get tickets to see us lose at home to Manchester United?  If I had to pick and choose my games then I'd rather go to see one we might actually win) but I just don't think the investment is worth it financially.  You don't buy an 8 bedroom house just because you are having the entire family over for Christmas. 

 

As for the training ground?  Well, it is used to attract players who (in theory at least) improve the team which improves results which generates income.  If somebody has to decide between, say, Villa and Everton and one team has nice facilities while the other has a bunch of portacabins surrounding a muddy field then which one is going to win the signature?  Being a big club isnt just about the shit the supporters can see.  

Edited May 30, 2013 by The_Rev

[PaulC]

 You don't buy an 8 bedroom house just because you are having the entire family over for Christmas. 

 

[Rugeley Villa]

The thing with villa is that we have a really big fanbase but we have so many fair weather fans and fans that select a few games and also fans that completely stay away if we ay doing to well, if we can some how get thsese people to the games then we will need a capacity increase, man city's fanbase will increase globaly because of the players they have and because they will be challenging for the title every year but were nowhere near man city's level but I would say our fanbase is very simaliar to theirs at the moment, a lot of fans from other teams think we have shit support for a big club from a big city and we also get branded fickle and I admit their is some truth in that but we have the support to be filling villa park every week even if we ay doing to well, we are by far the biggest supported club from the midlands and that's no disrespect to wolves, forest who both have big local fanbases but they don't even come close to us, we are in the top ten best supported clubs in england and I have no doubt in that so it is a mystery why we only fill villa park so few times, until we consistency hit the 40k mark for each game what's point in extending capacity, where I live in rugeley which is 20 odd mile away from brum the town is split between villa and wolves with of course man utd and liverpool but so many villa fans from here don't bother goin to the games

[CI]

In a way I quite like the North Stand. It's iconic 70's brutalistic design is unique and is far more interesting than some of the identikit carbuncles that have shot up in places like Bolton, Reading and Middlesborough. The North lower works superbly and if you want an away day vibe at home it's there for you.

[Demitri_C]

i personally think we should have extended to 45-46k first see how that went before going all out to 55k

Edited May 30, 2013 by Demitri_C

[PaulC]

In a way I quite like the North Stand. It's iconic 70's brutalistic design is unique and is far more interesting than some of the identikit carbuncles that have shot up in places like Bolton, Reading and Middlesborough. The North lower works superbly and if you want an away day vibe at home it's there for you.

 

Its a lot better than the old grass bank of the witton end that's for certain

[The_Rev]

i personally think we should have extended to 45-46k first see how that went before going all out to 55k

 

 

But we can't do that.   We have planning permission for 50,000 and to go beyond that will require an upgrade in things outside the stadium and potentially beyond our control like bus and rail links and car parking. 

 

So if you knock down the North Stand, what do we do?  Spend £20m on building something which increases the capacity by 3000 then spend again if we fill those seats?  Surely it is more prudent just to go all the way given the building costs will be very similar whether you put 10,000, 12,000 or 14,000 seats in the new stand which will replace the current 7000 seat capacity of the North Stand. 

[The Fun Factory]

No I think Lerner was right to finish Bodymoor before any new stand. It was half finished if I remember when Doug sold up. Isn't HS2 going very close round the training ground? Demitri- yes could be the way forward doing some development before pushing on with more. On the flip side we could end up with a half finished stand for about 10 years!

[KjParton]

I think it just looks tired.

 

In regards to safe standing the government hasn't passed the bill on that yet and until they do, we're not allowed to trial safe standing.