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bickster

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When I read the story -- and if you want to take the "media conspiracy" route, well, what else is there to say? -- the facts seem fairly clear because the demonstrators are the source:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-32009961

 

Anti-UKIP protesters have invaded a pub in south London where party leader Nigel Farage was having lunch.

Mr Farage was in the Queen's Head in Downe with his wife and two younger children at the time.

Demonstrators first went to the George & Dragon, believing it to be Mr Farage's local, before they found him.

They said they chased the family out of the pub and jumped on the politician's car bonnet as he drove away. Mr Farage later branded them "scum".

 

 

Protest? Really?

Thats come from UKIP not the protestors. his kids were not there! The protestors had booked the function room in the George and Dragon for the event! No one chased anyone out of the pub, Farage decided to leave! See the link in my previous post, written by THE ONLY JOURNALIST PRESENT. Its a completely different story.

If he was chased out of the pub how come his wife managed to sneak out and bring the Kubelwagon for his dramatic escape?

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I don't think they should be 'no platformed', but I do question why they are getting so much help from the media when a larger party, the Greens, are being denied. It seems to me that the Media/Political class can put up with a bit of racism if it serves the wider purpose of steering the UK out of the EU and allowing a bonfire of 'red tape' that is pretty much the only thing stopping the UK becoming a mini-USA.

 

That broadcasters don't stop to think that allowing a racist party spout their bollocks on television will only cause further division is what I find problematic.

 

I don't think for a second that they'll suffer as a consequence. Unlike the BNP, UKIP have business and the media behind them.

The Greens are larger in terms of members but that's it. UKIP consistently get higher support in the polls and have won more votes in the last few national elections. There is no media conspiracy to help UKIP - they're getting more coverage because they've gotten more support and more votes in the past couple of years. The Greens aren't being completely cut out either. They're getting a lot more coverage than they used to get because surprise surprise they're getting more support than they used to.

 

Unfortunately that's what you put up with in a democratic society. I don't particularly like hearing the Greens spout their crap (I don't like listening to UKIP either for the record) but that doesn't mean I think they should be denied a platform. I definitely think they deserve to be in the debates for example.

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The Greens are larger in terms of members but that's it. UKIP consistently get higher support in the polls and have won more votes in the last few national elections. There is no media conspiracy to help UKIP - they're getting more coverage because they've gotten more support and more votes in the past couple of years. The Greens aren't being completely cut out either. They're getting a lot more coverage than they used to get because surprise surprise they're getting more support than they used to.

 

i think papers like the Daily Mail have really embraced and publicised UKIP as a warning to Cameron - they've been right behind Farage from the start and I think he's to some extent a product of the Mail's desire to both warn Cameron off further press regulation and ensure that he doesn't deviate from their preferred policy - the Sun/Times and Express have followed suit to an extent. I think even in the age of social media, the power of the papers can't be underestimated and Farage is most definitely the newspaper's man.

 

The Greens get a lot less press in the papers, unless they've done something stupid (so a fair bit of press), but that's got more to do with none of the people who own the papers agreeing with them.

 

Farage is the Daily Mail made flesh, and not by accident either. A populist with no real interest in the population.

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When I read the story -- and if you want to take the "media conspiracy" route, well, what else is there to say? -- the facts seem fairly clear because the demonstrators are the source:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-32009961

 

Protest? Really?

 

Thats come from UKIP not the protestors. ....

See the link in my previous post, written by THE ONLY JOURNALIST PRESENT. Its a completely different story.

 

 

Yes, I see. I posted my last post before I saw your last post, so my posted comment reflects a pre-post-post perspective. I hear you now. Yes, rather confusing. Looks indeed completely different. Not good reflection of BBC's news operation.

 

Sounds like this particular incident was a bit of low rent farce.

 

But as for the principle of having the occasional bit of agitation and not letting everyone have their 'fair say', well personally I think we have a proud tradition of knowing when to protest beyond being quiet and playing the good fair law abiding democrat - and long may the rare but necessary bit of direct action continue.

 

Battle-of-Cable-Street-plaque.jpg

 

I don't think the battle of Queen's Head will be getting a plaque any time soon though.

 

Haha. Not indeed.

 

 

Unfortunately that's what you put up with in a democratic society. I don't particularly like hearing the Greens spout their crap (I don't like listening to UKIP either for the record) but that doesn't mean I think they should be denied a platform. I definitely think they deserve to be in the debates for example.

 

 

You sound American to me.

Edited by Plastic Man
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Unfortunately that's what you put up with in a democratic society. I don't particularly like hearing the Greens spout their crap (I don't like listening to UKIP either for the record) but that doesn't mean I think they should be denied a platform. I definitely think they deserve to be in the debates for example.

 

 

You sound American to me.

 

Based on...?

 

Don't take it as an insult by the way, just curious. :P

 

 

The Greens are larger in terms of members but that's it. UKIP consistently get higher support in the polls and have won more votes in the last few national elections. There is no media conspiracy to help UKIP - they're getting more coverage because they've gotten more support and more votes in the past couple of years. The Greens aren't being completely cut out either. They're getting a lot more coverage than they used to get because surprise surprise they're getting more support than they used to.

 

i think papers like the Daily Mail have really embraced and publicised UKIP as a warning to Cameron - they've been right behind Farage from the start and I think he's to some extent a product of the Mail's desire to both warn Cameron off further press regulation and ensure that he doesn't deviate from their preferred policy - the Sun/Times and Express have followed suit to an extent. I think even in the age of social media, the power of the papers can't be underestimated and Farage is most definitely the newspaper's man.

 

The Greens get a lot less press in the papers, unless they've done something stupid (so a fair bit of press), but that's got more to do with none of the people who own the papers agreeing with them.

 

Farage is the Daily Mail made flesh, and not by accident either. A populist with no real interest in the population.

 

 

I don't deny that UKIP and Farage get support from some sections of the media (mainly the Daily Mail) but I definitely think the extent to which they are supported in the media is overblown and I don't think the Greens have been ignored as much as some have made out.

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Its not mainly the Daily Heil, they aren't even the worst offenders. Richard Desmond reportedly made a £300,000 donation to UKIP before xmas. Thats the Express and the Star too. The express group papers might as well print their rags in purple and yellow ink these days

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Unfortunately that's what you put up with in a democratic society. I don't particularly like hearing the Greens spout their crap (I don't like listening to UKIP either for the record) but that doesn't mean I think they should be denied a platform. I definitely think they deserve to be in the debates for example.

 

 

You sound American to me.

 

Based on...?

 

Don't take it as an insult by the way, just curious. :P

 

 

You sound like a free-speechy sort. America has a deeper commitment to free speech as a value worthy in and of itself. People can flame away at me in protest, but your UK libel laws are fugged up. 

Edited by Plastic Man
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Running somebody out of a pub isn't exactly peaceful protest.

That isn't actually what happened though is it? Don't believe the story as spun by UKIP

For one, his kids weren't there, for two his wife was driving the car that pulled up so he could "escape the scum". The peaceful protest was taking shape in the form of a cabaret in the pub over the road. Then a rumour went around that Herr Farago was in the pub over the road so some of the Cabaret decided to conga over to Herr Farago's pub. He was "run out of a pub" by a conga of people in Fancy Dress.

Seriously the story has been spun to be something it really wasn't

I''m kinda puzzled here as you seem to be claiming with some authority that his children weren't present .. So which character in the Conga was you ?

Interestingly one of the lead protesters ( Dan Glass ) claims to have screamed at a child to flee as he threw

peanuts at his father (I.e Farage )

Presumably you weren't being serious when you told the poster not to believe everything he read in the paper and then quoted the Guardian as your source ?

I don't really have a lot of time for Farage but took an instant dislike to the protesters when I saw they were calling themselves activists ... Probably another lot of students living off Daddy's money until they go and get a job in the city in a few years time

So on this one I'm with Nigel

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He threw peanuts?

But what if someone had an allergy?

 

What good can come of the world when a genuine, down to earth, run of the mill chap can't have a quiet sunday pint down the pub discussing his politics without being confronted with a barrage of breasts being inconsiderately masked by a load of babies suckling on them?

What next? Will those same women demand the vote?

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So, to recap, we have two versions.

 

In the first version, Farage ran away leaving his kids there to fend for themselves.

In the second version, he lied and his kids weren't there.

 

Looks like he might want one more bash at a definitive version.

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''The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter''

Winston Churchill

 

Good old Winston. That champion of our democratic freedom.

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Churchill quotes

 

He is an interesting character. Can't be faulted on winning the war and therefore we owe pretty much all we have to him (slightly sweeping). But definitely a 'character'.

I guess you have to accept the past is a foreign place and all that. 

 

See if you can spot the Farage style quote on the list...

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Churchill quotes

 

He is an interesting character. Can't be faulted on winning the war and therefore we owe pretty much all we have to him (slightly sweeping). But definitely a 'character'.

I guess you have to accept the past is a foreign place and all that. 

 

See if you can spot the Farage style quote on the list...

Delightful old fascist wasn't he? Permanently pissed as well.

 

(We must rally against) a poisoned Russia, an infected Russia of armed hordes not only smiting with bayonet and cannon, but accompanied and preceded by swarms of typhus-bearing vermin.

Quoted in the Boston Review, April/May 2001

 

Must be the Farage one.

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Unfortunately that's what you put up with in a democratic society. I don't particularly like hearing the Greens spout their crap (I don't like listening to UKIP either for the record) but that doesn't mean I think they should be denied a platform. I definitely think they deserve to be in the debates for example.

 

 

You sound American to me.

 

Based on...?

 

Don't take it as an insult by the way, just curious. :P

 

 

You sound like a free-speechy sort. America has a deeper commitment to free speech as a value worthy in and of itself. People can flame away at me in protest, but your UK libel laws are fugged up. 

 

 

When it comes to free speech, I don't think it is all down to just liable laws, the Brits have just got a lower outrage threshold than Americans, especially when it comes to what can be said on television or radio these days.

 

When it comes to politics we just have a much narrower spectrum of opinion than America.

 

We don't have a Bill O'Reilly or an Ann Coulter but we don't have a Bill Maher or a Chomsky either.

 

What is notable is that just about every right-wing or left-wing intellectual we produce ends up in America, e.g. Chris Hitchens and Niall Ferguson of the Right and David Harvey the Marxist.

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Churchill quotes

 

He is an interesting character. Can't be faulted on winning the war and therefore we owe pretty much all we have to him (slightly sweeping). But definitely a 'character'.

I guess you have to accept the past is a foreign place and all that. 

 

See if you can spot the Farage style quote on the list...

 

we all have flaws ....  had Ghandi been alive today he'd currently be under investigation by Yewtree officers (or their Indian equivalent ) whilst being shunned for his views on Africans

Churchill came from an era very much in the past , his blunders in Gallipoli were as much down to supremacy arrogance ( though the Anzacs soldiers capturing the key piece of high ground and then walking off and abandoning it as they didn't grasp it's strategic importance also played a huge part in this defeat) … it doesn’t necessarily excuse Churchill , but there is always a concern when you judge people of the past from our enlightened times

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Churchill quotes

 

He is an interesting character. Can't be faulted on winning the war and therefore we owe pretty much all we have to him (slightly sweeping). But definitely a 'character'.

I guess you have to accept the past is a foreign place and all that. 

 

See if you can spot the Farage style quote on the list...

 

I am surprised that a Welshman would have such a high opinion of Churchill.

 

After all he did cause the General Strike by putting the country back on the gold standard, which led to the miners having their wages cut and their hours increased, and then sent in the troops when they went on strike.

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Churchill quotes

 

He is an interesting character. Can't be faulted on winning the war and therefore we owe pretty much all we have to him (slightly sweeping). But definitely a 'character'.

I guess you have to accept the past is a foreign place and all that. 

 

See if you can spot the Farage style quote on the list...

 

we all have flaws ....  had Ghandi been alive today he'd currently be under investigation by Yewtree officers (or their Indian equivalent ) whilst being shunned for his views on Africans

Churchill came from an era very much in the past , his blunders in Gallipoli were as much down to supremacy arrogance ( though the Anzacs soldiers capturing the key piece of high ground and then walking off and abandoning it as they didn't grasp it's strategic importance also played a huge part in this defeat) … it doesn’t necessarily excuse Churchill , but there is always a concern when you judge people of the past from our enlightened times

 

I don't think there is any judgement beyond an affectionate acknowledgement that he was very much a man of his time. A Victorian by birth with views to match.

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