Bolitics UKIP Nutters

[colhint]

where do you get this UKIP want's to charge us all for a visit to the GP, I can't seem to find it.

[bickster]

where do you get this UKIP want's to charge us all for a visit to the GP, I can't seem to find it.

here

…

In summary UKIP would:

• Scrap NHS 111 – it is a complete shambles

• Support profession led approaches in primary care that reduce admissions

• Keep A&E free of charge for those triaged as needing treatment within two hours

• Focus on two hour targets for standard cases: cases that wait four hours rather than two suffer worse than those that should wait four and wait more.

• Non urgent cases to be seen only when no standard and urgent cases are waiting

• Allow mutual providers, including GPs, to charge a flat fee to see non-emergency cases

• Ensure people can pay upfront fees off over a period of time when registered with a GP

• Apply the same clinical exemptions to the flat fee as for prescription charges in England

• The flat fee will only be discounted for those registered with a local GP

• The flat fee will not be discounted for those who are drunk and either disorderly or incapable

• Insist immigrants to the UK are not cleared for entry without evidence of valid health insurance.

More articles for this category will be arriving soon.

And that article was re-tweeted by Herr Farrago as being written by a UKIP health spokesperson.

So one can only assume that Herr Farrago agrees and it is also therefore UKIP policy

[drat01]

when everything was going great people didn't care about the immigrants

suddenly things turned to ratshit and people feel a bit of pain and want someone to blame ... and if the Simpsons has taught us any valuable lessons in life it's "blame the guy that doesn't speak English"

get everybody back in work and immigration and therefore UKIP will disappear quicker than the UK gold reserves under Gordon Brown

I don't think that's entirely fair. While it certainly is true for some people it's not like there were no concerns about immigration prior to the global financial crisis, it's just become more of a mainstream issue now and you're not automatically branded a racist or a bigot if you bring it up (well, most of the time).

people are often branded that way because they are

[colhint]

well on the UKIP website it states 

 

http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people

 

 UKIP opposes plans to charge patients for visiting their GP.

 

 

Where you maybe confused is where they say that it is up to the Traige clinician  to say they need not be seen within 2 hours, they would still be seen within 4 hours, unless they paid. Furthemore the any charging will be the same as prescriptions, i.e. If you get free prescription you wont be charged. 

[Risso]

And that absolutely doesn't say that people should be charged for going to the GP! 

 

It's an article about reducing the workload and waiting times for A&E, and from the link Bicks posted above (which I shall not therefore re-post):

 

It is time for a British societal perspective. We should accept that if a triaging clinician feels we don’t need treating within two hours required for standard cases then we be either willing to pay or willing to wait longer so cases most deserving are treated best. People should pay a higher charge if they haven’t registered with a GP as being directed back to primary care avoids unnecessary A&E visits. Recent arrivals are overrepresented in this group and it is also only fair they pay for health insurance until they are paying both National Insurance and Income Tax.

 

 

So, a blanket charge to see a GP is clearly NOT what the article says, at all.

[blandy]

Hasn't it (immigration) become more of an issue these days because there's more of it?

[bickster]

And that absolutely doesn't say that people should be charged for going to the GP! 

 

It's an article about reducing the workload and waiting times for A&E, and from the link Bicks posted above (which I shall not therefore re-post):

 

It is time for a British societal perspective. We should accept that if a triaging clinician feels we don’t need treating within two hours required for standard cases then we be either willing to pay or willing to wait longer so cases most deserving are treated best. People should pay a higher charge if they haven’t registered with a GP as being directed back to primary care avoids unnecessary A&E visits. Recent arrivals are overrepresented in this group and it is also only fair they pay for health insurance until they are paying both National Insurance and Income Tax.

 

So, a blanket charge to see a GP is clearly NOT what the article says, at all.

And how many people go to their GP in an emergency situation? It absolutely does say that. Line I emboldened. You need emergency medical care, where do you go? You don't chuffin go to to your GP so this line…

" Allow mutual providers, including GPs, to charge a flat fee to see non-emergency cases "

Absolutely DOES say that.

That btw was written in June so is more current than the UKIP website

[Risso]

Hasn't it (immigration) become more of an issue these days because there's more of it?

 

I'd say that's a fair assumption to make.  I travel regularly to London, and it seems that every single shop, bar and restaurant is staffed almost exclusively by Eastern Europeans.  That doesn't seem to be the case so much in places like Manchester and Birmingham.

[bickster]

Hasn't it (immigration) become more of an issue these days because there's more of it?

 

I'd say that's a fair assumption to make.  I travel regularly to London, and it seems that every single shop, bar and restaurant is staffed almost exclusively by Eastern Europeans.  That doesn't seem to be the case so much in places like Manchester and Birmingham.

At least all the Australians have gone home then

[Risso]

 

And that absolutely doesn't say that people should be charged for going to the GP! 

 

It's an article about reducing the workload and waiting times for A&E, and from the link Bicks posted above (which I shall not therefore re-post):

 

It is time for a British societal perspective. We should accept that if a triaging clinician feels we don’t need treating within two hours required for standard cases then we be either willing to pay or willing to wait longer so cases most deserving are treated best. People should pay a higher charge if they haven’t registered with a GP as being directed back to primary care avoids unnecessary A&E visits. Recent arrivals are overrepresented in this group and it is also only fair they pay for health insurance until they are paying both National Insurance and Income Tax.

 

So, a blanket charge to see a GP is clearly NOT what the article says, at all.

 

And how many people go to their GP in an emergency situation? It absolutely does say that. Line I emboldened. You need emergency medical care, where do you go? You don't chuffin go to to your GP so this line…

" Allow mutual providers, including GPs, to charge a flat fee to see non-emergency cases "

Absolutely DOES say that.

That btw was written in June so is more current than the UKIP website

 

 

OK then, you might want to add [in certain very specific situations] as otherwise, somebody might misunderstand your post in a way that you absolutely haven't misunderstood that article.....

Edited October 15, 2014 by Risso

[Mantis]

 

 

when everything was going great people didn't care about the immigrants

suddenly things turned to ratshit and people feel a bit of pain and want someone to blame ... and if the Simpsons has taught us any valuable lessons in life it's "blame the guy that doesn't speak English"

get everybody back in work and immigration and therefore UKIP will disappear quicker than the UK gold reserves under Gordon Brown

I don't think that's entirely fair. While it certainly is true for some people it's not like there were no concerns about immigration prior to the global financial crisis, it's just become more of a mainstream issue now and you're not automatically branded a racist or a bigot if you bring it up (well, most of the time).

people are often branded that way because they are

 

So if you have concerns over immigration you're automatically a racist?

 

I thought the political discourse had finally moved on from this?

[drat01]

Hasn't it (immigration) become more of an issue these days because there's more of it?

I'd say that's a fair assumption to make. I travel regularly to London, and it seems that every single shop, bar and restaurant is staffed almost exclusively by Eastern Europeans. That doesn't seem to be the case so much in places like Manchester and Birmingham.

every shop? Bar? And restaurant ? Hmmmmm me thinks you are somewhat over doing that .... I travel to London most weeks now and I don't see that. What I do see is people serving me typical with good service and trying to help. Where they come from means nowt to me as long as they are being paid fair wages and paying fair taxes (not avoiding them :-) )

[drat01]

 

So if you have concerns over immigration you're automatically a racist?

I thought the political discourse had finally moved on from this?

where did anyone say that? I am intrigued because my browser is missing a post where this was stated.

[Risso]

 

 

Hasn't it (immigration) become more of an issue these days because there's more of it?

I'd say that's a fair assumption to make. I travel regularly to London, and it seems that every single shop, bar and restaurant is staffed almost exclusively by Eastern Europeans. That doesn't seem to be the case so much in places like Manchester and Birmingham.

every shop? Bar? And restaurant ? Hmmmmm me thinks you are somewhat over doing that .... I travel to London most weeks now and I don't see that. What I do see is people serving me typical with good service and trying to help. Where they come from means nowt to me as long as they are being paid fair wages and paying fair taxes (not avoiding them :-) )

 

 

I wasn't making any point at all about the quality of the service, but it's undoubtedly a fact that the majority of staff in London outlets are Eastern European.  Possibly not in the East End greasy spoons that you frequent, but there you go!

[Mantis]

 

where did anyone say that? I am intrigued because my browser is missing a post where this was stated.

 

 

You said people are often branded that way (as in racist or bigoted) "because they are" - I was wondering if you thought this applied to everybody who raises concerns about immigration?

[colhint]

Hasn't it (immigration) become more of an issue these days because there's more of it?

 

I think the reason  is 4 fold,

 

First, because for a long time it was associated with the BNP. and most moderate people found them abhorrent. 

 

Secondly, It appeared that if you raised concern, people often just called you a racist, 

 

Third is as Tony mentioned, times are tough

 

Fourth, with the rise of UKIP people may think something might be done about it. 

 

These are in no particular priority.

[chrisp65]

I can read that and see what it means.

 

it clearly does not say all people that raise the subject are all racists

 

It clearly does, rightly, suggest that often the people raising the subject are racist. Even though they often genuinely don't believe they are. The sort of people, often, that would be genuinely offended to be sat down and told not liking somebody specifically because they are asian or Latvian without any other facts or background actually is a bit racist.

 

The sort of people that will quite happily, most nights, go on tv on a vox pop and announce I'm not racist, but....

 

Not everyone, not even everyone that raises the subject, But a lot of people that raise the subject without actually thinking through the logic of what they are saying. The sort of people who, god love 'em, just like my dad, genuinely think we should send 'em back, except the nice ones that he knows personally, because some of them are alright.

 

But perhaps in order to get this conversation going, we actually have to get a bit more thick skinned and converse with all people including those not up to speed on this week's list of acceptable words and descriptors, setting aside instant criticism and actually teasing out what they are often trying to say or ask. Would it be better around here, without an influx of people coming in and skewing the labour market, house prices and everything? Or would it actually mean no money for pensions and no carers in care homes? We don't know because people just shout stats at each other.

[drat01]

You said people are often branded that way (as in racist or bigoted) "because they are" - I was wondering if you thought this applied to everybody who raises concerns about immigration?

that's not what you said though is it? And I have not said it applies to all so I don't really understand your point edit : Chris has explained all perfectly Edited October 15, 2014 by blandy

[Mantis]

 

You said people are often branded that way (as in racist or bigoted) "because they are" - I was wondering if you thought this applied to everybody who raises concerns about immigration?

that's not what you said though is it? And I have not said it applies to all so I don't really understand your point edit : Chris has explained all perfectly

 

I'll say it now then, as a rough proportion how many of the people who raise concerns about immigration do you think are racist?

[snowychap]

37.5%