AndyBM Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 /\ abit like half our first team then? lol i think we should really look abroad then the lower leagues, i was hoping we was going to sign abdoulaye ba when we was linked with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel1Avfc Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I'd take Mathieu Flamini from AC Milan. You might but Lambert wouldn't. Newspapers say otherwise, Southampton were also linked... Yeah mate i suppose its a valid link ok but i don't see Lambert buying a 29 year old with a poor injury record even if he is on a free. It goes against everything he is trying to do at the club. Wages might also be another issue? Sylla is injury prone, so no I don't see your point. Lambert hasn't ruled out buying experienced players, thats just you assuming. We've missed Petrov's presence in central midfield, I believe Flamini could be our answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 i really think were in a position were we have too many midfielders on the books, i think we need to sell at least 3 to buy 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 We should be banned from buying any midfield players under 6ft. Our midfield is like the cast from the borrowers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) We should be banned from buying any midfield players under 6ft. Our midfield is like the cast from the borrowers Good nickname would be the Smurfs. Beaten black n' blue. Edited April 22, 2013 by Con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 "Would people rather keep Benteke and sign no one or sell Benteke and sign people?" I would rather do both! If we stay up some of the television money should be used to build the team in an attempt to prevent us suffering through another season like this one. Other teams will spend and we need to as well to try to secure a place in the PL as the risk we have taken this season was too great and we need to learn from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) The count methodology is identical for all players. You have yet to address this fact. This means that key pass number is objective when comparing different players. Key pass quality is not measured at all. Not claiming that. You would need additional methodology to sort the key passes into boxes according to their quality. All we know objectively is some players have a greater number of key passes than others. You cannot understand what I am saying. That is very different than me not saying it. But, what the hell. Let's try it again. WhoScored defines a "key pass" as "The final pass leading to a shot at goal from a teammate" Note that is says shot AT goal. Not a shot ON goal. To then determine what a shot AT goal is, the person recording the statistics has to determine what the intention of the player was. You say there is a methodology. I assume you have no idea what you are talking about, but, to humor you, I will also assume there is a methodology. Either way, that methodology requires a human being to consistently apply it. So, and this is just an example of the thousands of different scenarios that could pop up in a game, if a player sends a corner into the box and it touches the head of a player on his team, the person scoring the key pass statistic can either score that as a shot AT goal or not a shot AT goal. In most cases is it probably fairly straight forward. In some cases in will not be. In those cases, you are relying on the person recording the statistic to make an assumption about the intention of the offensive player. Voila. Subjectivity. To be honest, I do not know why you are arguing this point. First of all, it is fairly obvious to everyone else reading this. Secondly, the key pass stat being completely rigid and objective actually hurts your arguments for the greatness of your boy toy. Edited April 23, 2013 by Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 You cannot understand what I am saying. That is very different than me not saying it. But, what the hell. Let's try it again. WhoScored defines a "key pass" as "The final pass leading to a shot at goal from a teammate" Note that is says shot AT goal. Not a shot ON goal. I've never said it was, or should be, shot 'on' goal. What does this comment change? To then determine what a shot AT goal is, the person recording the statistics has to determine what the intention of the player was. You keep saying that as if it is a subjective decision. When the data is compiled it is a result of identical methodology. Identical. Let's go again to the example when a cross that strikes the crossbar. That can be a shot at goal. Or a cross. Which is it? Make a rule that if it hits the woodwork then it's a shot, if it misses, it's not a shot. That's it. It's unlikely Whoscored is telling you the whole methodology. If you want to write to them, or Opta, for clarification, be my guest! You say there is a methodology. I assume you have no idea what you are talking about, but, to humor you, I will also assume there is a methodology. Either way, that methodology requires a human being to consistently apply it. Human error and humans lie. Sure. That can theoretically effect the results, in a tiny way. That's not a problem of subjective interpretation though, which is what you are claiming. So, and this is just an example of the thousands of different scenarios that could pop up in a game, if a player sends a corner into the box and it touches the head of a player on his team, the person scoring the key pass statistic can either score that as a shot AT goal or not a shot AT goal. In most cases is it probably fairly straight forward. In some cases in will not be. In those cases, you are relying on the person recording the statistic to make an assumption about the intention of the offensive player. Voila. Subjectivity. To be honest, I do not know why you are arguing this point. First of all, it is fairly obvious to everyone else reading this. Secondly, the key pass stat being completely rigid and objective actually hurts your arguments for the greatness of your boy toy. In your example it's a shot, because there is a connection. There is no subjectivity if the rules are applied. Connection with cross is a shot. This is likely another rule of the methodology, because they will surely be fully aware of all the issues you are bringing up here. Businesses make money out of these statistical collections, they're not going to be amateurish about it. The player got his head on the ball, if he was taller, better positioned or timed his jump he may have had a goal, so it's a shot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'd take Mathieu Flamini from AC Milan. You might but Lambert wouldn't. Newspapers say otherwise, Southampton were also linked... Yeah mate i suppose its a valid link ok but i don't see Lambert buying a 29 year old with a poor injury record even if he is on a free. It goes against everything he is trying to do at the club. Wages might also be another issue? Sylla is injury prone, so no I don't see your point. Lambert hasn't ruled out buying experienced players, thats just you assuming. We've missed Petrov's presence in central midfield, I believe Flamini could be our answer. Sylla is 22. I'm assuming nothing just pointing out that to date Lambert hasn't purchased anyone close to their thirties and with Flamini's record of injuries and he isn't likely to in the future unless the player is prepared to take a pittance in wages or is on a pay as you play deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Flamini! Isnt he on about 70k per week? He had been shit for years too. we already have a shit midfielder on massive wages and i doubt we will have another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel1Avfc Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I'd take Mathieu Flamini from AC Milan. You might but Lambert wouldn't. Newspapers say otherwise, Southampton were also linked... Yeah mate i suppose its a valid link ok but i don't see Lambert buying a 29 year old with a poor injury record even if he is on a free. It goes against everything he is trying to do at the club. Wages might also be another issue? Sylla is injury prone, so no I don't see your point. Lambert hasn't ruled out buying experienced players, thats just you assuming. We've missed Petrov's presence in central midfield, I believe Flamini could be our answer. Sylla is 22. I'm assuming nothing just pointing out that to date Lambert hasn't purchased anyone close to their thirties and with Flamini's record of injuries and he isn't likely to in the future unless the player is prepared to take a pittance in wages or is on a pay as you play deal. Lambert has signed players close to their thirties (Vlaar, KEA and technically Guzan too) Flamini had his wages cut when he signed a 1 year contract this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 i really think were in a position were we have too many midfielders on the books, i think we need to sell at least 3 to buy 1 Too many shit midfielders on the books you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 24, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 24, 2013 Yep. Sample size is a huge problem in football. Not picking on you Con, but since we have already discussed it, lets look at key passes. The best key passer in the world, according to who scored, only has 3.3 KP a game. If even one of those passes is misinterpreted, like a cross that glances off a players' head for example, then you have a measurement error that equates to 30% of the measurement. That is a big problem. The count methodology is identical for all players. You have yet to address this fact. This means that key pass number is objective when comparing different players. Key pass quality is not measured at all. Not claiming that. You would need additional methodology to sort the key passes into boxes according to their quality. All we know objectively is some players have a greater number of key passes than others. Isn't this an overwhelming argument against your approach of basing everything on stats (as I've already pointed out)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez1974 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) i really think were in a position were we have too many midfielders on the books, i think we need to sell at least 3 to buy 1 Too many shit midfielders on the books you mean. Yes and yes. Westwood, Ireland, Delph, KEA, Bannan, Gardner, Herd, Sylla, Holman, plus the kids coming through, and that's not counting Stan who we knew wouldn't play this year, makes about 12 central midfielders on the books at the moment. Keep the kids who look like they can make it, plus Westwood, Delph, Sylla and Gardner, and replace them with one or 2 players who are better than we already have. Save a fortune and improve the team. To stop the rows - If you want to keep Herd because he provides cover at RB, fine. If you want to keep KEA to give him a second season, I am not sure we can afford to. If you want to keep Holman as a winger, you're mad! If you want to keep Bannan, you're Con! Edited April 24, 2013 by Pez1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 If we stay up,Benteke and Wierman should stay but if we go down then we are in real trouble cause right now we are signing players from the divisions below us.Imagine doing that when we are in the championship ? Buying players from league 1 or 2 or maybe from the foreign division 3/4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 out ..... bannan-simple not good enough herd- dito ireland- wages/not intrested kea-not good enough holman-runs around-lacks end product petrov-retired dunne-OOC given-not needed/to much £ IN mulumbu. best player at wba,better that all the above no question odemwingie..again better than our players,want out of wba..no way back for him huddlestone, Premier League player better than all the above,perfect move for him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 no cahnce for them players. the salaries be way out of what we pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 no cahnce for them players. the salaries be way out of what we pay with all the above players off the books ..the new players will cost less combined & are better. dunne/given/petrov/ireland combined are no less than 200k a week. all have added nothing to this season (petrov ill etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 still dont see it, we have cut a lot last summer and doubt any of the new signings then got more than 25k a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 thats that then.. close the book & shut the door season ticket prices rose as did the calibre of players, now they want the same £ for us but the players are a getting worse. championship it is then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts