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Richard

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The worst start to a season in the history of the league (I assume since 1992 when Sky invented football). Worse than the famous Derby team and worse even than Tactics Tim's Aston Villa. This will be the end of Moyes as a manager in England. Time to wait for Rodgers to be sacked so he can take over at Celtic or possibly strachan to be sacked so he can take over and fail to get Scotland qualified for anything.

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With Boro winning at the weekend, Blunderland are now ALREADY 8pts off safety after 10 games :o:crylaugh: They mightn't even get another 8pts this season.  They need Allerdici in as soon as possible if they're to have any hope whatsoever, and even then it would probably be his biggest challenge ever.

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26 minutes ago, villa89 said:

The worst start to a season in the history of the league (I assume since 1992 when Sky invented football). Worse than the famous Derby team and worse even than Tactics Tim's Aston Villa. This will be the end of Moyes as a manager in England. Time to wait for Rodgers to be sacked so he can take over at Celtic or possibly strachan to be sacked so he can take over and fail to get Scotland qualified for anything.

 

I disagree. I think there are extenuating circumstances - chiefly, the squad was in dire repair when he arrived - in August! - and what the bought were really the last lot left on the shelf. Desperate bargain basement shopping. If he'd had a proper summer they'd have bought better, I'm sure of it. As such, they arguably already had the worst squad going into the season - with possibly Hull who were equally shy in the window as contenders - and they're living up to the tag. Essentially, this Sunderland team would have struggled in years when the league was less full of the riches, they'd struggle in the championship as they are - I would say most championship teams have a more talented first eleven than Sunderland, they are that bad.  And whilst Hull, with an inexperienced manager and a poor squad, and Swansea with mostly just a random manager may allow opportunities to get the odd point or two, the disparity with the other sides, is vast. Even west brom, burnley, middlesborough, stoke, crystal palace and others are miles ahead. 

I think the 3-2 loss to Palace - when they were 2-0 up, was even more deflating for them, than our reverse at Leicester was last year, after that, they've rather lost all faith in themselves. 

 

Moyes, may well be an old dog now, - he tried Spain, brave but failed, and following on after Ferguson was always going to be tough, and their squad wasn't in a great shape relative to rivals, but nonetheless, he did fail, could have done better. I would say he's more than capable of doing a solid job for a team still, but I think he grossly underestimated the size of the job on he had there. 

 

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His problem is that he is getting a pattern of failure.  Yes there were extenuating circumstances, but you very rarely take over a nicely sailing ship.  You're usually getting the job because something's a bit of a mess.  So he'll always have extenuating circumstances should he need to explain his next failure too.  At some point you have to go in and fix it rather than let it drag you down.  We all know following Fergie would be difficult.  But the things Moyes used to say to downplay expectations were unbelievable and he engineered a losing mentality to align them with the results he was getting, in a 'well this is what I always expected' kind of way.  As bad as Sunderland were last season, they had enough to stay up under a different manager.  They're not even a contender now.  They'll be like us soon.  Out of the discussion altogether and just trying not to set new records.  That's under Moyes' stewardship.  I think he's gone now as soon as Sunderland identify a better option and I think his next appointment, if he gets one, needs to be at a lower level with a side who are not a disaster.  One that gives him a fighting chance to do a Preston/Everton again.  Because right now he looks like a liability, and he needs to put that right whichever way he manages it.

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25 minutes ago, Rodders said:

 

I disagree. I think there are extenuating circumstances - chiefly, the squad was in dire repair when he arrived - in August! - and what the bought were really the last lot left on the shelf. Desperate bargain basement shopping. If he'd had a proper summer they'd have bought better, I'm sure of it. As such, they arguably already had the worst squad going into the season - with possibly Hull who were equally shy in the window as contenders - and they're living up to the tag. Essentially, this Sunderland team would have struggled in years when the league was less full of the riches, they'd struggle in the championship as they are - I would say most championship teams have a more talented first eleven than Sunderland, they are that bad.  And whilst Hull, with an inexperienced manager and a poor squad, and Swansea with mostly just a random manager may allow opportunities to get the odd point or two, the disparity with the other sides, is vast. Even west brom, burnley, middlesborough, stoke, crystal palace and others are miles ahead. 

I think the 3-2 loss to Palace - when they were 2-0 up, was even more deflating for them, than our reverse at Leicester was last year, after that, they've rather lost all faith in themselves. 

 

Moyes, may well be an old dog now, - he tried Spain, brave but failed, and following on after Ferguson was always going to be tough, and their squad wasn't in a great shape relative to rivals, but nonetheless, he did fail, could have done better. I would say he's more than capable of doing a solid job for a team still, but I think he grossly underestimated the size of the job on he had there. 

 

 

I think there's a few excuses for Moyes in there.

He arrived in July and the squad which Allardyce had playing reasonably well towards the end of last season only lost Kaboul who was an important player as far as I'm aware. He was able to keep players like Kone, and had the players such as Kirchoff and Khazri who were prominent in them staying up following their January arrivals. 

Moyes was then able to splash 25m net to bolster the squad and that included 8m Djilobidi to replace Kaboul and 17m on Ndong.

If they then have a worse squad than teams like Hull and Burnley (which I don't think they do) then that is his fault, it's also his fault if he can't motivate his players to make a decent fist of things. If Allardyce was still there they may well be in a relegation battle, but they'd be competitive and certainly have a fair few more points on the board.

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They have some decent players. Borini isn't amazing, but occasionally chips in with goals. Kazri seemed pretty decent, but for some reason isn't used. Defoe is still one of the better premier league strikers. Januzaj is their Grealish. Showed lots of potential a while ago, but has done nothing recently. 

I think the problem is depth. After Defoe, who do they have? Some youth players and that's it. I guess Borini can play there too. Their defense is also terrible. Didn't Allardyce nothing O'Shea was too slow for CB so he moved him to defensive mid where he did alright? But moyes has him back on defense. 

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On 31/10/2016 at 15:23, blandy said:

Very unfair. Practically all managers bring their own staff to a job. Moyes didn't get rid of a bunch of brilliant people at Man U, he kept most of them on.

Going to work abroad isn't arrogant. It's potentially educational, horizon widening, experience improving and all the rest of it. Like Bobby Robson, Chris Coleman, Brolly Steve, or for that matter all the foreign managers who come to the UK - Pochetino couldn't do good England words when he came here, for example. It shows they are willing to challenge themselves to new learning and experiences.

Sam Allardyce's football is pretty grim to watch, to say the least. The Moyes way at Everton and Preston offers greater potential for higher finishes and is better to watch

That said Sunderland make the Villa of last year look "normal" - they're going down without a doubt.

Managers do bring in their own staff but you are taking over at Man Utd. Fergie knows how to assemble a coaching team and let them get on with it. It worked. Why would you sack them and replace them with inferior? Did Moyes think he was that good??

I am sure Poch could speak English he just chose not to in press conferences. I am all for managers going abroad and players but he didn't know a word of Spanish. It was a poor poor choice. Even when Ranieri and the like came over here they could speak the language to seem degree.

He has made some very bad choices the past few years.

Again at Sunderland you don't just take a shoddy team and set about changing the entire philosphy after not having a full pre season. Again, did he think his coaching was that good??

Just stick to what is working and gradually introduce your methods and ideas.

He is, again, a very arrogant man in my opinion :)

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13 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Arrogant or not his career is going down the pan, I can't see him turning Sunderland around so he will be lucky to hold onto his job. If he goes I can't see him getting another PL job.

Yep, I say as much in my previous post.  I think the only avenue left for him after Sunderland is to drop a level or 2 and rebuild his tattered reputation at another Preston, and try to get a club that isn't in total disarray.

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If I was Sunderland I'd sack moyes and get in a championship manager now, they are going down but they can start building now for championship and get someone who knows the league.

i actually think they should go for rowett, he would get a couple results for them, knows the championship and with abit if money he could get them challenging for title in championship next season. 

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3 hours ago, BOF said:

Yep, I say as much in my previous post.  I think the only avenue left for him after Sunderland is to drop a level or 2 and rebuild his tattered reputation at another Preston, and try to get a club that isn't in total disarray.

Sorry was too busy dusting off my reaper costume and checking out the Sunderland ticket office to read your post properly.... ;)

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Moyes will just wait for the Celtic job to come up....or even take the Scotland job if Strachan gets sacked after a Wembley defeat although even that will probably be another wrong career move.

Sunderland finished last season very well...I went to their 0-0 draw with Arsenal in April and it was fully deserved, it was like chalk and cheese their performance v the same opposition on Saturday.

Their key players haven't wanted to know since Big Sam went imo....Kone and Kaboul was actually becoming a solid combo and Kirchoff and Khazri also played their part in them staying up. None of them want to play for Moyes.

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8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

sure Kaboul even left

He went to Watford pretty much as soon as Moyes came in, been injured since though.

Never rated him much but he was producing some focused performances in the run in last season so certainly better than that joker Djiboliji they've got now.

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14 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

He went to Watford pretty much as soon as Moyes came in, been injured since though.

Never rated him much but he was producing some focused performances in the run in last season so certainly better than that joker Djiboliji they've got now.

He has some agent that lad...

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7 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

I remember there being a bit of talk about that Kone moving to a better club this summer. Quite amazed at how crap he is. He'd make Lescott and Richards blush at his lack of ability and effort.

He looked good last season though when he was motivated under Big Sam.

Reminds me of Gana, if he followed his path and went to Everton I think he'd look decent again.

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