RIP RIP Hugo Chavez

[Zatman]

And yet if he wasn't claiming to be acting on behalf of the poor (but used the same authoritarian methods) he would be vilified on here, and rightly so.

 

Also let's not forget his militant stance on the Falklands.

 

though for a different thread. what right do UK actually have to Falklands in first place especially wehn Chavez usually supported most of his neighbours

[Stevo985]

I don't even know the difference between left and right wing. Seriously.

 

Right Wing is Hitler, left wing is Stalin...

That doesn't really help much. They're both pretty similar in my head.

 

This proves how ignorant I am to Politics. I really really should care. But I don't.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Stevo985

[Mantis]

And yet if he wasn't claiming to be acting on behalf of the poor (but used the same authoritarian methods) he would be vilified on here, and rightly so.

 

Also let's not forget his militant stance on the Falklands.

 

though for a different thread. what right do UK actually have to Falklands in first place especially wehn Chavez usually supported most of his neighbours

The Islanders want to remain part of the UK and their right to self-determination must be respected, just as it must be respected if they ever decide they want to become part of Argentina or become independent. The fact that most of Latin America supports Argentina's claim on the Falklands is irrelevant.

[AVFCforever1991]

 

I don't even know the difference between left and right wing. Seriously.

 

Right Wing is Hitler, left wing is Stalin...

That doesn't really help much. They're both pretty similar in my head.

 

This proves how ignorant I am to Politics. I really really should care. But I don't.

 

Yeah they were similar..

 

Left wing believe in big government and dependance on the state/high taxation. Labour 

Right wing believe in big corporations and free market. Conservatives 

Edited March 7, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[Eames]

 

I don't even know the difference between left and right wing. Seriously.

 

Right Wing is Hitler, left wing is Stalin...

That doesn't really help much. They're both pretty similar in my head.

 

This proves how ignorant I am to Politics. I really really should care. But I don't.

 

Actually it doesn't. Hilter and Stalin were both brutal dictators with remarkably similar methods. The politics was secondary to the power. It was a means to an end.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Too much gets made of the right-wing/left-wing thing. In my mind it is about fairness and that is a question of right or wrong. Political leaning is irrelevant and has largely distorted politics into a puppet show.

[chrisp65]

I know this forum is pretty left wing (pretty is probably too weak a word for it) but why the Chavez love in? This was a man that was virtually a dictator and had very little respect for human rights and the rule of law.

 

as said elsewhere, not a love in, the guy clearly had faults, big faults

but 'virtually a dictator'? really?

that'll be how he won 4 straight fair democratic elections I guess

 

sneaky bastard, taking money off corporations and giving it to the poor of his country to improve housing, education, infant mortality rates etc., they're clearly cunning little buggers these lefties

[maqroll]

Dangerous days ahead in Venezuela. The middle and upper classes will want to seize the opportunity, and the Chavistas will not want to let go. I'm not sure the country has ever been so divided along class lines. 

[Mantis]

I know this forum is pretty left wing (pretty is probably too weak a word for it) but why the Chavez love in? This was a man that was virtually a dictator and had very little respect for human rights and the rule of law.

 

as said elsewhere, not a love in, the guy clearly had faults, big faults

but 'virtually a dictator'? really?

that'll be how he won 4 straight fair democratic elections I guess

 

sneaky bastard, taking money off corporations and giving it to the poor of his country to improve housing, education, infant mortality rates etc., they're clearly cunning little buggers these lefties

Just because he won elections doesn't mean he wasn't somewhat of a tyrant. If you actually look at authoritarian states in the world most of them have elections. It doesn't necessarily mean those elections are free and fair. The democratic nature of elections in Venezuela could certainly be called into question.

 

You make it sound like taking over corporations like that is a good thing. There are other countries in the world that have shown you can be left-wing without being oppressive.

[tonyh29]

that'll be how he won 4 straight fair democratic elections I guess

 George Bush won a fair straight democratic election  , it's easier than you think

[Chindie]

Not saying everyone on here is left-wing, but a large majority are and when I say left-wing I mean really left-wing.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course I just don't understand why people are lavishly praising a dictator like Chavez.

I would contend that, where one to ask the active membership of offtopic, to complete an anonymous political compass quiz, and then collate the results of the respondants as 'left' or 'right' wing, you would end up without a large majority of left wing support. I might go so far as to suggest that you'd actually get a result leaning a little to the right. Your average person in the UK, in my experience, is slightly socially right wing, and few genuinely lean that far left on anything other than a few social matters, and economically tend to support the basic concepts of capitalism. You'd end up with a fairly centred view, with perhaps a slight lean right.

 

I think reading this forum as 'really left wing' is quite funny, really. The noticeably active members leaning noticeably one way or tother balance out, and neither particularly comes out as 'really' either way. If you think this forum is particularly profoundly leaning either way, you should have been on my degree course modules. You'd have had an aneurysm.

 

 

 

I don't even know the difference between left and right wing. Seriously.

 

Right Wing is Hitler, left wing is Stalin...

That doesn't really help much. They're both pretty similar in my head.

 

This proves how ignorant I am to Politics. I really really should care. But I don't.

 

Yeah they were similar..

 

Left wing believe in big government and dependance on the state/high taxation. Labour 

Right wing believe in big corporations and free market. Conservatives 

 

Theres more to it than that. The concept of a political spectrum has become stretched so much these days as to have pretty much become broken - for instance right wing in the UK is different to right wing in the US, and even then the UK has differing concepts of it in the degrees to which things are 'really' right wing.

 

Typically, the right is interested in traditions, hierarchy, and also perhaps somewhat counterintuitively, freedoms (which in turn can be a quite good example of the spectrum breaking - a real dyed in the wool libertarian would certainly be right wing and interested above all in human freedoms, but someone who was right wing to the extent of racism/bigotted nationalism would find they wouldn't agree with the libertarian on many points. This is why gauges of political... stances... tend to try to seperate economic issues from social ones to get a more accurate rendition of what a person really believes).

 

Typically, the left is interested in equality, progression, change, and will usually support some constriction of freedoms to achieve it.

 

But again there always remains the gross oversimplification.

[privateer]

[Chindie]

 

I don't even know the difference between left and right wing. Seriously.

 

Right Wing is Hitler, left wing is Stalin...

That doesn't really help much. They're both pretty similar in my head.

 

This proves how ignorant I am to Politics. I really really should care. But I don't.

Do a political compass - take about 10 minutes. 

 

All the people who are Right in the world (not right as in right wing, they're Wrong) come out as social libertarians

[Mantis]

Not saying everyone on here is left-wing, but a large majority are and when I say left-wing I mean really left-wing.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course I just don't understand why people are lavishly praising a dictator like Chavez.

I would contend that, where one to ask the active membership of offtopic, to complete an anonymous political compass quiz, and then collate the results of the respondants as 'left' or 'right' wing, you would end up without a large majority of left wing support. I might go so far as to suggest that you'd actually get a result leaning a little to the right. Your average person in the UK, in my experience, is slightly socially right wing, and few genuinely lean that far left on anything other than a few social matters, and economically tend to support the basic concepts of capitalism. You'd end up with a fairly centred view, with perhaps a slight lean right.

 

I think reading this forum as 'really left wing' is quite funny, really. The noticeably active members leaning noticeably one way or tother balance out, and neither particularly comes out as 'really' either way. If you think this forum is particularly profoundly leaning either way, you should have been on my degree course modules. You'd have had an aneurysm.

I know where the country stands. When I said "on here" I was referring to VT, specifically off-topic.

 

You really think this forum isn't left-wing? I'm not sure on that. Certainly from what I've seen (I don't come in here all that often) it seems to be. It's completely expected that VT would have more Labour leaning people (when you take into account the location of the club we all support) but a lot of people's views here do seem to be further to the left than people I know (I've got quite a few Labour supporting friends).

 

Has there ever been a political compass thread on here? We'd be able to put this to the test.

[AVFCforever1991]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/index

[Chindie]

 

Not saying everyone on here is left-wing, but a large majority are and when I say left-wing I mean really left-wing.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course I just don't understand why people are lavishly praising a dictator like Chavez.

I would contend that, where one to ask the active membership of offtopic, to complete an anonymous political compass quiz, and then collate the results of the respondants as 'left' or 'right' wing, you would end up without a large majority of left wing support. I might go so far as to suggest that you'd actually get a result leaning a little to the right. Your average person in the UK, in my experience, is slightly socially right wing, and few genuinely lean that far left on anything other than a few social matters, and economically tend to support the basic concepts of capitalism. You'd end up with a fairly centred view, with perhaps a slight lean right.

 

I think reading this forum as 'really left wing' is quite funny, really. The noticeably active members leaning noticeably one way or tother balance out, and neither particularly comes out as 'really' either way. If you think this forum is particularly profoundly leaning either way, you should have been on my degree course modules. You'd have had an aneurysm.

I know where the country stands. When I said "on here" I was referring to VT, specifically off-topic.

 

You really think this forum isn't left-wing? I'm not sure on that. Certainly from what I've seen (I don't come in here all that often) it seems to be. It's completely expected that VT would have more Labour leaning people (when you take into account the location of the club we all support) but a lot of people's views here do seem to be further to the left than people I know (I've got quite a few Labour supporting friends).

 

Has there ever been a political compass thread on here? We'd be able to put this to the test.

 

Yes, I know you were referring to Off Topic. I think it would bear out pretty much as small sample of the population would. Which is what I said. Birmingham is as divided as the rest of the country is - and I would still contend that even people who vote Labour stolidly would come out as fairly 'right wing' if you asked them to do a quiz on it (not least because the idea of Labour being truly left these days is quite funny). And of course there are more than Brummies here - there are more than Brits in fact. Generally, I think they'd cancel each other out, and socially you'd have a slight right lean which may out itself where you to collate all the answers.

 

We've done political compass threads before, I've started one in fact. They're never very popular.

 

And no, I really don't think the forum is particularly left wing. I think I could only name a few posters (not that I would) who I would nail to the post as 'left wing'. I'd probably be able to nail more as right, in truth, off the top of my head. Quite honestly.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Chindie

[Mantis]

 

 

Not saying everyone on here is left-wing, but a large majority are and when I say left-wing I mean really left-wing.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course I just don't understand why people are lavishly praising a dictator like Chavez.

I would contend that, where one to ask the active membership of offtopic, to complete an anonymous political compass quiz, and then collate the results of the respondants as 'left' or 'right' wing, you would end up without a large majority of left wing support. I might go so far as to suggest that you'd actually get a result leaning a little to the right. Your average person in the UK, in my experience, is slightly socially right wing, and few genuinely lean that far left on anything other than a few social matters, and economically tend to support the basic concepts of capitalism. You'd end up with a fairly centred view, with perhaps a slight lean right.

 

I think reading this forum as 'really left wing' is quite funny, really. The noticeably active members leaning noticeably one way or tother balance out, and neither particularly comes out as 'really' either way. If you think this forum is particularly profoundly leaning either way, you should have been on my degree course modules. You'd have had an aneurysm.

I know where the country stands. When I said "on here" I was referring to VT, specifically off-topic.

 

You really think this forum isn't left-wing? I'm not sure on that. Certainly from what I've seen (I don't come in here all that often) it seems to be. It's completely expected that VT would have more Labour leaning people (when you take into account the location of the club we all support) but a lot of people's views here do seem to be further to the left than people I know (I've got quite a few Labour supporting friends).

 

Has there ever been a political compass thread on here? We'd be able to put this to the test.

 

Yes, I know you were referring to Off Topic. I think it would bear out pretty much as small sample of the population would. Which is what I said. Birmingham is as divided as the rest of the country is - and I would still contend that even people who vote Labour stolidly would come out as fairly 'right wing' if you asked them to do a quiz on it. And of course there are more than Brummies here - there are more than Brits in fact. Generally, I think they'd cancel each other out, and socially you'd have a slight right lean which may out itself where you to collate all the answers.

 

We've done political compass threads before, I've started one in fact. They're never very popular.

 

And no, I really don't think the forum is particularly left wing. I think I could only name a few posters (not that I would) who I would nail to the post as 'left wing'. I'd probably be able to nail more as right, in truth, off the top of my head. Quite honestly.

What makes you think it would be the same as the country? VT isn't representative of the country at large.

 

A lot of this would depend on one's own political views anyway. If somebody is quite left-wing then even centrists would appear right-wing to them, just as a very right-wing person would see almost everyone else as left-wing.

 

Still, I haven't seen anything to suggest the off-topic section of VT is anything but solidly left-wing, at least among people who post in political threads anyway.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Mantis

[bickster]

A lot of this would depend on one's own political views anyway. If somebody is quite left-wing then even centrists would appear right-wing to them, just as a very right-wing person would see almost everyone else as left-wing.

 

Still, I haven't seen anything to suggest the off-topic section of VT is anything but solidly left-wing, at least among people who post in political threads anyway.

In that case you are Pol Pot and I claim my five pounds, all those pesky left wingers arguing amongst themselves in off topic...

[Mantis]

A lot of this would depend on one's own political views anyway. If somebody is quite left-wing then even centrists would appear right-wing to them, just as a very right-wing person would see almost everyone else as left-wing.

 

Still, I haven't seen anything to suggest the off-topic section of VT is anything but solidly left-wing, at least among people who post in political threads anyway.

In that case you are Pol Pot and I claim my five pounds, all those pesky left wingers arguing amongst themselves in off topic...

Pol Pot the communist?

[bickster]

A lot of this would depend on one's own political views anyway. If somebody is quite left-wing then even centrists would appear right-wing to them, just as a very right-wing person would see almost everyone else as left-wing.

 

Still, I haven't seen anything to suggest the off-topic section of VT is anything but solidly left-wing, at least among people who post in political threads anyway.

In that case you are Pol Pot and I claim my five pounds, all those pesky left wingers arguing amongst themselves in off topic...

Pol Pot the communist?

Yep, doen't make sense to you does it? Traditional political theories of the 20th century are not extremes on a linear scale (as the media often portray), they are more likely represented by a circle. As someone already pointed out Hitler and Stalin bore many similarities.

Whilst the rhetoric of Communism may be considered clockwise, the actions were mostly anti-clockwise