thetrees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 How will we be strong when Lerner is incapable of making good recruitment decisions in footballing or non footballing positions? How do you know that to be a fact? He was advised over the recruitment of O'Neill and Houllier, so he should sack his advisors (if he didn't do so already)? Some may say that he was ill advised over the recruitment of McLeish :winkold: As for Faulkner (presumable your non-footballing position?) who are you and I to make any judgement as to how capable he is at his job? I certainly don't know and I suspect that you don't either. No you are right, he is doing a smashing job. I'm wasting my time even getting into this so I won't. I didn't say anything of the sort about what kind of job that he was doing, because I don't know. Perhaps you were actually wasting your time with your initial posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Perhaps you could state what you think Lerner and Faulkner have done right in the last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2012 Perhaps you were actually wasting your time with your initial posting. In asking you a question seeking a straight answer that might require some admission that Lerner has some faults, yes I think I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Perhaps you were actually wasting your time with your initial posting. In asking you a question seeking a straight answer that might require some admission that Lerner has some faults, yes I think I was. That bit the owner got wrong. He put significant financial elements of the business into the hands of the team manager, who didn't have the business acumen to handle it. Far more Mr Lerner's fault than the team manager, and it eventually led to the rift that saw them take leave of each other. Unfortunately the financial mismanagement of that period saw the club saddled with a number of individuals on large contracts who, quite frankly, were never good enough to justify their salaries. Is your speed with the moderator button related to the fact that you don't actually read the posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2012 Is your speed with the moderator button related to the fact that you don't actually read the posts? Believe it or not I don't read every post written, especially when they are often repetitive in nature but its refreshing to see you accept some faults in Lerner even if you dispute that his faults extend to his ability to recruit. As for moderation perhaps if people followed the rules of the site I'd have more time to read posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Is your speed with the moderator button related to the fact that you don't actually read the posts? Believe it or not I don't read every post written, especially when they are often repetitive in nature but its refreshing to see you accept some faults in Lerner even if you dispute that his faults extend to his ability to recruit. As for moderation perhaps if people followed the rules of the site I'd have more time to read posts. That was written in the same sequence from which you made the subsequent statement, so I could be forgiven for believing that you had gathered all information before making such a statement. Site rules i have always followed, although i hadn't made allowance for your apparently selective moderation. I know now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 For a guy who appoints, Houllier, Mcleish, and also had Mclaren and martinez in the frame - its difficult to see a way forward. In the ellis years we could at least hope that the next manager would be an improvement on the previous - ie Graham Taylor replacing Billy Mcneil , Ron Atkinson replacing Josef Venglos. Should Mcleish walk \ be fired. I would have little confidence in Lerner hiring anyone better. Someone, maybe joking or not, suggested steve bruce. Sad truth is he would probably be the bookies favourite. If lerner spends 3 - 4 days a week at VP - then jets home without taking in the game - thats bizzare. I still think Lerner is in the process of tidying the club up for a sale. It would be a major surprise for me if he began investing big money again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 But if Lerner left we wouldn't get the free scarves, banners and coaches to away games. These little things really matter. I really don't care if he has made a **** up of the managerial appointments and the finances and the 5 year plan because I really like my 'Freebies'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendi Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 first off all, the owners needs to talk and addressed the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 first off all, the owners needs to talk and addressed the matter. Owners ? its only Randy ?????? (sole owner) Talk to whom about what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 first off all, the owners needs to talk and addressed the matter. Owners ? its only Randy ?????? (sole owner) Talk to whom about what ? I think RL needs to have an argument with himself in a mirror and the winner gets to sack McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 For a guy who appoints, Houllier, Mcleish, and also had Mclaren and martinez in the frame - its difficult to see a way forward. In the ellis years we could at least hope that the next manager would be an improvement on the previous - ie Graham Taylor replacing Billy Mcneil , Ron Atkinson replacing Josef Venglos. Should Mcleish walk \ be fired. I would have little confidence in Lerner hiring anyone better. Someone, maybe joking or not, suggested steve bruce. Sad truth is he would probably be the bookies favourite. Don't forget that O'Neill was hired in the same way as Houllier, on advice from people who apparently know football. In fairness Houllier was the most previously successful manager ever hired by the Villa, so he was a decent pick on face value. McLeish's appointment was certainly bizarre, but if any of the lower grade managers bandied around by some since then had been hired, then they and Mr Lerner would probably be getting pelters now anyway. Even if McLeish were to go the owner is on a hiding to nothing with his next appointment, so he may as well tough it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendi Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 he kept silent has he ran out of money,he not been to any matches to,if I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Has anybody ever written to the club before? To Faulkner or Lerner? Had any luck? I started drafting a letter during the game today, half in anger and half because I was so bored by what I watching. It's going to be fairly lengthy and will take me a while, but I really must get a few things said about the potential damage and the risks that the club is taking by continuing with McLeish, not only now but in the medium and long term. I would never have bothered with Ellis but I think there's at least a chance that someone in the new regime might listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 For a guy who appoints, Houllier, Mcleish, and also had Mclaren and martinez in the frame - its difficult to see a way forward. In the ellis years we could at least hope that the next manager would be an improvement on the previous - ie Graham Taylor replacing Billy Mcneil , Ron Atkinson replacing Josef Venglos. Should Mcleish walk \ be fired. I would have little confidence in Lerner hiring anyone better. Someone, maybe joking or not, suggested steve bruce. Sad truth is he would probably be the bookies favourite. Don't forget that O'Neill was hired in the same way as Houllier, on advice from people who apparently know football. In fairness Houllier was the most previously successful manager ever hired by the Villa, so he was a decent pick on face value. McLeish's appointment was certainly bizarre, but if any of the lower grade managers bandied around by some since then had been hired, then they and Mr Lerner would probably be getting pelters now anyway. Even if McLeish were to go the owner is on a hiding to nothing with his next appointment, so he may as well tough it out. I can't see how you possibly defend either appointment. They both had a touch of the bizzare - and looked doomed to fail from the outset. Houlliers ill heath gave lerner a 'get of jail card' - he still hadn't got the nous to take it..... IMO if lerner faulkner stay, without a massive change of approach - we will be in the championship within 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I thought Ellis hired MON? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Has anybody ever written to the club before? To Faulkner or Lerner? Had any luck? I started drafting a letter during the game today, half in anger and half because I was so bored by what I watching. It's going to be fairly lengthy and will take me a while, but I really must get a few things said about the potential damage and the risks that the club is taking by continuing with McLeish, not only now but in the medium and long term. I would never have bothered with Ellis but I think there's at least a chance that someone in the new regime might listen. Post it on here and save yourself the price of a stamp because nobody at AVFC will take a blind bit of notice. If they listened to the fans then we wouldn't be in this mess now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 For a guy who appoints, Houllier, Mcleish, and also had Mclaren and martinez in the frame - its difficult to see a way forward. In the ellis years we could at least hope that the next manager would be an improvement on the previous - ie Graham Taylor replacing Billy Mcneil , Ron Atkinson replacing Josef Venglos. Should Mcleish walk \ be fired. I would have little confidence in Lerner hiring anyone better. Someone, maybe joking or not, suggested steve bruce. Sad truth is he would probably be the bookies favourite. Don't forget that O'Neill was hired in the same way as Houllier, on advice from people who apparently know football. In fairness Houllier was the most previously successful manager ever hired by the Villa, so he was a decent pick on face value. McLeish's appointment was certainly bizarre, but if any of the lower grade managers bandied around by some since then had been hired, then they and Mr Lerner would probably be getting pelters now anyway. Even if McLeish were to go the owner is on a hiding to nothing with his next appointment, so he may as well tough it out. I can't see how you possibly defend either appointment. They both had a touch of the bizzare - and looked doomed to fail from the outset. Houlliers ill heath gave lerner a 'get of jail card' - he still hadn't got the nous to take it..... IMO if lerner faulkner stay, without a massive change of approach - we will be in the championship within 3 years. I didn't know that I was defending them, except to say that if I was a foreigner with limited knowledge, then presented with Houllier's and, to a lesser extent O'Neill's CV, then I can see why he deemed them acceptable for the manager's position. The appointment of McLeish is indefensible. I don't dislike the man, and I continue to support him as our manager, but I think that it was a misguided appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I agree with you TT - Houllier's appointment was surprising but also understandable, not least because the season had just started and the managerial market was appalling. No excuses at all for appointing McLeish, absolutely none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I agree with you TT - Houllier's appointment was surprising but also understandable, not least because the season had just started and the managerial market was appalling. No excuses at all for appointing McLeish, absolutely none.Agreed. No excuses for keeping him here either. We're dropping like a stone and worst of all we're not even trying. He's clearly lost the dressing room (if he ever had it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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