The Randy Lerner thread

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, a m ole said:

So... you find it easy to hate Ashley Westwood, and he deserves everything he gets, but Randy Lerner doesn't?

ha. ha.

A good point. 

He also expects every player to give their best at all times but Lerner can do what ever he wants. 

 

[chrisp65]

If you take the emotion out of it, it makes no sense.

Without emotion, you are paying £35 to watch other people kick a ball around a field, badly.

You can withdraw your matchday spending as a weapon or a tool to exert pressure. But surely, once you 'step back' emotionally what would be the point of re engaging later. What criteria would you be using to return? I don't know, maybe it's me, but I have to care. If I didn't care then I could go along and watch Cardiff City who are geographically closer, win sometimes and entry costs less. If I didn't care I guess I could get in to women's football and not have to worry about booking history.

I don't think we are far apart in this, really. I'd just offer a little caution in being too laid back about letting an owner do whatever they like without putting up a bit of resistance and giving them a little feedback. Not least, when that owner has turned up and given us his 'word' and tried to chime in with people's emotions. He said he'd leave if he turned out to be a poor custodian. He got his little tattoo to show his emotion. He has disappeared, refusing communication. That would appear to me, for lack of evidence to the contrary, to make him as a person, incompetent at best and a fraud at worst. 

If we are bought by a faceless Chinese Corporation, I can accept that they are in this for the business profile, the shirt sales, the gambling spin offs and the ego. That's not what Randolph told us. He said he was a fan. Well he **** isn't.

 

[Woodytom]

10 minutes ago, a m ole said:

So... you find it easy to hate Ashley Westwood, and he deserves everything he gets, but Randy Lerner doesn't?

ha. ha.

Eh? I don't hate ashley westwood. I just think he's a dreadful player.

On the note of the players - I despise them collectively and believe they have bled the club dryer than randy Lerner has.

[Woodytom]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

A good point. 

He also expects every player to give their best at all times but Lerner can do what ever he wants. 

 

It's a dreadful point tbh.

And yeah I do. They're getting paid for goodness sake. 

[StefanAVFC]

8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

If you take the emotion out of it, it makes no sense.

Without emotion, you are paying £35 to watch other people kick a ball around a field, badly.

You can withdraw your matchday spending as a weapon or a tool to exert pressure. But surely, once you 'step back' emotionally what would be the point of re engaging later. What criteria would you be using to return? I don't know, maybe it's me, but I have to care. If I didn't care then I could go along and watch Cardiff City who are geographically closer, win sometimes and entry costs less. If I didn't care I guess I could get in to women's football and not have to worry about booking history.

I don't think we are far apart in this, really. I'd just offer a little caution in being too laid back about letting an owner do whatever they like without putting up a bit of resistance and giving them a little feedback. Not least, when that owner has turned up and given us his 'word' and tried to chime in with people's emotions. He said he'd leave if he turned out to be a poor custodian. He got his little tattoo to show his emotion. He has disappeared, refusing communication. That would appear to me, for lack of evidence to the contrary, to make him as a person, incompetent at best and a fraud at worst. 

If we are bought by a faceless Chinese Corporation, I can accept that they are in this for the business profile, the shirt sales, the gambling spin offs and the ego. That's not what Randolph told us. He said he was a fan. Well he **** isn't.

 

Yep. The emotional side is what makes being a fan, being a fan.

Otherwise you're just a person with a label that says 'I'm a Villa fan'. Then what's the point?

[a m ole]

2 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Eh? I don't hate ashley westwood. I just think he's a dreadful player.

On the note of the players - I despise them collectively and believe they have bled the club dryer than randy Lerner has.

your obsession with proving his 'dreadfulness' and delight when he makes a mistake in the match thread suggest different, even if you don't want to admit it.

You going to pretend you don't get angry about him? but you could never get angry at Lerner. lol.

[sexbelowsound]

Excellent post @chrisp65 Agree completely.

[John]

At least one man is still happy with our "custodian" and with his money. Our former chairman who still has a stand named after him is quoted in "The Telegraph" today: 

"Ellis has insisted he still has no regrets over selling to the 54-year-old. He told Telegraph Sport: “I had no intention of selling the club but I’d had three operations and one particular chap said Villa is putting you in hospital. I took that on board and put it up for sale. “I think I sold it to the right man, it was valued at £115 million by the surveyors in writing, with 82 acres of land and no debt at all. I sold it to Randy because he was the right man in my mind.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/18/aston-villa-in-fresh-turmoil-after-shock-resignations-of-directo/

 

[Woodytom]

14 minutes ago, a m ole said:

your obsession with proving his 'dreadfulness' and delight when he makes a mistake in the match thread suggest different, even if you don't want to admit it.

You going to pretend you don't get angry about him? but you could never get angry at Lerner. lol.

I don't have to prove his dreadfulness. He does a fine job of that. There's a big difference between thinking someone is crap, to hating them. If anything Its the OTT praise he's received that has irritated me the most with him.

Can't remember the last time I mentioned him in the match thread. Certainly with any delight.

But yeah I can get angry with him and not Lerner. Both are making mistakes continually. Not learning from them. Yet ashley westwood still reaps the benefits of being involved in AVFC despite his mistakes.

[a m ole]

12 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

I don't have to prove his dreadfulness. He does a fine job of that. There's a big difference between thinking someone is crap, to hating them. If anything Its the OTT praise he's received that has irritated me the most with him.

Can't remember the last time I mentioned him in the match thread. Certainly with any delight.

But yeah I can get angry with him and not Lerner. Both are making mistakes continually. Not learning from them. Yet ashley westwood still reaps the benefits of being involved in AVFC despite his mistakes.

Randy Lerner is/was the man who directly or indirectly hires and fires everyone at the club. He's responsible for everyone you don't like at the club. How could you not be angry with him?

Edited April 19, 2016 by a m ole

[Stevo985]

I find it astonishing that someone who doesn't even like the club colours anymore isn't angry at Lerner.

[zapbranny]

1 hour ago, Woodytom said:

I honestly find it very hard to get angry with the guy. I really do.

I obviously recognise his failings but I don't agree with the vile abuse he receives.

Ive always been in the mindset that he's the owner. He can do what the hell he likes with it. And I continue to be confused when people disagree with this. Sure I get the frustration with having to accept that but we don't really have a choice. 

All this protesting 'our club' nonsense is a waste of time imo. He ain't gonna sell because we've attempted to make life difficult for him by holding up a bit of paper reading a message he's no doubt already familiar with. He can't wait to get rid of it and has probably been in that mindset for 3/4 years.

I don't see anything that he gets as a reward for being the aston villa owner and is no doubt as **** off as we are. He probably would just like to be able to hire a group of people that can do their jobs in an adult fashion, without thinking they know best and be able to come to an agreement as a team. 

He probably also expects players on extortionate wages to do as they are bloody well told, act as professional athletes and shut the **** up. 

Like I say, I recognise his failings and he shoulders a fair proportion of the blame. It's just pointless 'attacking' him as I'm certain he is wanting rid.

You can understand why that has taken so long too. I mean who in their right mind will want to buy this crock of shit?

Got to agree, he has not made great decisions.  However the fact that people are worried who we ar sold to makes me believe that he is not as bad an owner al a Vincent tan Venus etc.  People are keenly aware that there are much worse owners out there.

in defence of him, it looks as though he has spent £300 m of his own money, the debt has not been leveraged on the club as the glazers have.  He paid for the redevelopment of the training ground, the hole hotel etc.  

He employed people to run the club effectively and wanted the club to move onto a self sustaining model ( seems sensible).  These people failed.  Now Bernstein and King resigning doesn't look good, but until I know the reasons I am going to withhold an opinion.

He hasn't been a successful owner, but he has backed the club. Let's hope he doesn't just give it to the first Cowboys that show interest as long as he does that he will continue to have my respect.

if the asking price is £50m - could a fan supported consortium not buy the club?

[Woodytom]

10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I find it astonishing that someone who doesn't even like the club colours anymore isn't angry at Lerner.

Eh? Wtf has the club colours got to do with it?

Kinda blows your nonsense that I hate everything to do with AVFC out of the water doesn't it.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said:

I also don't think he should be abused the way he is. He's incompetent, and he's privileged up to his eyeballs and lives in a different world from most of us and as a result I don't think has a clear grasp of reality - both of which make him a terrible owner - but I don't think he's a bad person and don't think he's out to destroy Villa

Yes, I agree with that.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Eh? Wtf has the club colours got to do with it?

Kinda blows your nonsense that I hate everything to do with AVFC out of the water doesn't it.

You posted before that you didn't even like the club colours any more.

I find it amazing that the guy responsible for letting the club sink low enough that you are, rightly or wrongly, negative about every element of it, manages to escapes your displeasure.

It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Stevo985

[DCJonah]

The day I am no longer emotionally invested is the day I'm no longer a fan and just someone who says they support the club. 

I've hugged and been hugged by complete strangers because a multi millionaire, who wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire, kicked a ball in a net. The emotion is the main thing that matters. It's why the highs are great and the lows hurt so much, that's being a football fan. 

I'd be furious with the guy who took that away from me. And the fact at times he has, is the reason I **** hate this word removed. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by DCJonah

[blandy]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

If you take the emotion out of it, it makes no sense.

Without emotion, you are paying £35 to watch other people kick a ball around a field, badly.

You can withdraw your matchday spending as a weapon or a tool to exert pressure. But surely, once you 'step back' emotionally what would be the point of re engaging later. What criteria would you be using to return? I don't know, maybe it's me, but I have to care. If I didn't care then I could go along and watch Cardiff City who are geographically closer, win sometimes and entry costs less. If I didn't care I guess I could get in to women's football and not have to worry about booking history.

I don't think we are far apart in this, really. I'd just offer a little caution in being too laid back about letting an owner do whatever they like without putting up a bit of resistance and giving them a little feedback. Not least, when that owner has turned up and given us his 'word' and tried to chime in with people's emotions. He said he'd leave if he turned out to be a poor custodian. He got his little tattoo to show his emotion. He has disappeared, refusing communication. That would appear to me, for lack of evidence to the contrary, to make him as a person, incompetent at best and a fraud at worst. 

If we are bought by a faceless Chinese Corporation, I can accept that they are in this for the business profile, the shirt sales, the gambling spin offs and the ego. That's not what Randolph told us. He said he was a fan. Well he **** isn't.

 

Being honest, I have no "emotion" invested in Villa any more, really. I used to. Used to go home and away for many years. I loved all that. Then I stopped going, for various reasons, many unrelated to the team or owner. I don't spend anything on tickets or merchandise or satelite subs etc.

But anyway, I still observe the situation via this internet site and the odd bit of media coverage. partly out of habit, partly out of actually sort of liking the interaction with people. I was thinking the other day after we'd gone down "I might start going again next season" - maybe ticket prices, the absence of stupid Blue and Red team hype and a bit more normality at various grounds, plus seeing old faces again might make that appealing. new pubs, new grounds. New hope, even. So basically, if it promised to be fun again and not a rip off, then even though I don't "care" like I did when I was a kid, there could still be a point to going.

Then the latest snafu happened, and I snapped out of it.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You posted before that you didn't even like the club colours any more.

I find it amazing that the guy responsible for letting the club sink low enough that you are, rightly or wrongly, negative about every element of it, manages to escapes your displeasure.

It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something.

I don't really like the colours anymore either to be honest... (Burnley, West Ham, Scunthorpe) amongst other things.

[Stevo985]

That was kind of beside the point, I was being tongue in cheek.

My point is Woody is negative about everything. He's perfectly entitled to be, and he's right to be a lot of the time, because we are **** shit.

But he seems to be fairly apathetic towards Lerner, who is the cause of all that negativity.

I don't get that.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Stevo985

[Woodytom]

21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You posted before that you didn't even like the club colours any more.

I find it amazing that the guy responsible for letting the club sink low enough that you are, rightly or wrongly, negative about every element of it, manages to escapes your displeasure.

It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something.

Well first of all I'm not negative about every element of it. That's your interpretation. A wrong one. Yourself and a few others focus on the negative opinions I get and imo, it gets exaggerated.

Secondly, randy Lerner's mistakes are not ignored by me. I've said over and over again that I think he's a dreadful owner. He's made mistake after mistake. However, he doesn't make me angry and I find the protests aimed at him pointless. I also find the abuse OTT. The reasons why I think like that is

a) he's not reaping any benefits himself. Yes thats his own fault and I couldn't give a shit if he isn't however, it indicates that his actions are not intentional. That doesn't excuse his actions, just relieves him from hatred. The players give me the impression that they have fully intended to underperform this season for example.

B anything he's done in terms of cutting costs etc is what I'd have done and what I believe any sane person who isn't beyond belief rich would do. Of course in hindsight (for example we were all very optimistic after the summer activity) we would do things differently.

And 

c) he recognises his mistakes and continually tries to act upon them imo. Mostly by trying to sell the club.

 

I find it massively fickle from a fan group that less than 8 months after we were all so pleased with the summer (randy Lerner oversaw that too of course - he over sees everything), we're stood on the terraces protesting about those decisions (amongst others of course).

Why weren't we protesting about no football men on the board in the summer? Because, like Lerner, we thought it would work. And when it became evident it wasn't working, he moved to change it. In that instance, what more do you want the man to do that can be effected without hindsight.

Yeah it's another poor decision that points to a poor owner overall and the blame needs to be pointed at him. But I'm sure he was doing what he thought was best, yes for himself, but also for aston villa.

Now, you compare that with the players, who know full well they'll be looked after whatever, who have gone out and deliberately at times put the future of us in jeopardy. That's a completely different kettle of fish imo.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Woodytom