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The Deadwood Checklist


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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

I guess the problem is if we get relegated some of the players we consider not good enough might actually do a job in the Championship.

 

But the list for me is:

1) Makoun
2) Hutton (gone completely)
3) Given (we are paying him too much to sit on the bench)

4) Ireland (see above)

5) Bent (see above)

 

if we stay up then there are too many average players to list that we could ship out.
 

if we get relegated then the carcass will get picked clean anyway.

Posted

So I have been looking at our existing squad and wages.  I think our wage bill is as follows currently:

 

Guzan - £15k

Given – £50k


Hutton - £15k (assume that’s how much we pay off his wages)

Lowton - £10k

Lichaj - £8k

Clark - £15k

Vlaar - £20k

Baker - £5k

Dunne - £50k

Herd - £5k


 

Bennett - £8k

Stevens - £5k

Albrighton - £15k

Holman - £20k

Ireland - £55k

Delph - £20k

Bannan - £10k

Westwood - £10k

Al Ahmadi - £20k

Gardner - £8k

N’Zogbia - £45k
Sylla - £15k
Dawkins - £10k


Bent - £65k
Benteke - £20k

Gabby - £50k

Weimann - £8k

Bowery - £5k

 

That is £552k per week or £28m per annum.  You probs can double it to include other staff costs (i.e. non staff, maybe wages for Makoun, reserve team players), bonuses, national insurance etc.  Still only £56m.  Not bad is it really?

 

Question is are we at the sustainable level yet?  Do you think the plan is to get rid of Dunne, Given and Bent next year and reinvest their wages to improve the overall squad?

Posted

Are Sylla and Dawkins on those amounts? I thought they'd be on maybe half that given the apparent difficulty in bringing players in.

 

The disparity in wages between Given and Guzan is incredible when you consider what they offer.

Posted

I have no idea trying to overestimate where possible.  Exactly what PL is trying to do imo.  Same goes with Benteke and Bent.

 

It all depends on RL's plans and if he is still going to be a fool about our finances.  Bent, Dunne and Given are the obvious ones to leave.  Ireland may be more difficult.  Still gives us sufficient wages to rebuild a good squad.

Posted (edited)

Perhaps the lack of willingness to do business in January was PL's way of setting a precedent. After the O'Neill years and then what we handed out for the likes of Ireland, Hutton, Given, we must be seen by agents as a soft touch for getting their clients a hefty contract. We were probably the only team who would have given Bent the contract he got too.

 

Perhaps PL and/or RL are just refusing to play ball. It means whoever we do sign isn't just doing it for the money which is a major issue.

 

Newcastle are now the go to club for this.

Edited by El-Reacho
Posted

I have no idea trying to overestimate where possible.  Exactly what PL is trying to do imo.  Same goes with Benteke and Bent.

 

It all depends on RL's plans and if he is still going to be a fool about our finances.  Bent, Dunne and Given are the obvious ones to leave.  Ireland may be more difficult.  Still gives us sufficient wages to rebuild a good squad.

 

If you're on a cost cutting mission, I doubt we will bring the wage bill up to what it is currently. Given that Lerner wouldn't fund players in our hour of need - I shudder to think what scope Lambert will have in the summer - even if we manage to stay up.

 

The cost cutting must end - if it doesn't we won't stay in the prem - be that this season or next - the cost cutting will take us to the championship - just a question of when

Posted

I have no idea trying to overestimate where possible.  Exactly what PL is trying to do imo.  Same goes with Benteke and Bent.

 

It all depends on RL's plans and if he is still going to be a fool about our finances.  Bent, Dunne and Given are the obvious ones to leave.  Ireland may be more difficult.  Still gives us sufficient wages to rebuild a good squad.

 

If you're on a cost cutting mission, I doubt we will bring the wage bill up to what it is currently. Given that Lerner wouldn't fund players in our hour of need - I shudder to think what scope Lambert will have in the summer - even if we manage to stay up.

 

The cost cutting must end - if it doesn't we won't stay in the prem - be that this season or next - the cost cutting will take us to the championship - just a question of when

 

If our current wage level is the cap we can sustainably stay in the PL. It's because of the contracts we already handed out that we're hamstrung at the moment.

 

I think Omariqy is making the point that if we can go and get the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Guzan, Westwood etc. for the money they're on then surely we can go and get a lot more of the same with the wages freed up when Bent, Dunne, Ireland, Hutton, Makoun, and Given are permanently off the books. If we can have three Bentekes for the price of one Bent or five Westwoods for the price of one Ireland then of course you can build a team good enough for the PL even taking into account the signings that don't work out. 

 

Whilst there's clearly question marks over a few of PL's signings I reckon Benteke, Lowton, Westwood and Guzan have all increased their value since they've been here - and that's after a absolute shocker of a season so far.

Posted (edited)

My concern is, that there seems to be an assumption  that the signing of ineffective players has stopped....I'm to be convinced.

 

I tend to be more inclined to say we are still creating deadwood faster than we are getting rid of it.

 

I havn't seen any budding Gareth Bales or Theo Walcotts in our ranks.

 

Whether some of those signed from the lower reaches remain  to be seen by me.

Edited by TRO
Posted

My concern is, that there seems to be an assumption  that the signing of ineffective players has stopped....I'm to be convinced.

 

I tend to be more inclined to say we are still creating deadwood faster than we are getting rid of it.

 

I havn't seen any budding Gareth Bales or Theo Walcotts in our ranks.

 

Whether some of those signed from the lower reaches remain  to be seen by me.

Posted

Given: 50k (too much to just sit on the bench)

Hutton: 15k*/40k (* whatever % we are paying while he is out on loan)

Makoun: ? (**** knows)

Ireland: 65k (Worst player I've recently seen in a claret and blue shirt, lazy, arrogant and has a bad attitude, can 0121)

Bent: 80k (Just don't play to suit his style/strengths)

Dunne: 40k (Too injury prone)

 

Hopefully we get rid of all of the above and get rid of over 250k off the wage bill. Dunne will leave on a free and Bent and Hutton elsewhere, not sure who would be willing to pay Ireland's and Given's wages though.

Posted

My concern is, that there seems to be an assumption  that the signing of ineffective players has stopped....I'm to be convinced.

 

I tend to be more inclined to say we are still creating deadwood faster than we are getting rid of it.

 

I havn't seen any budding Gareth Bales or Theo Walcotts in our ranks.

 

Whether some of those signed from the lower reaches remain  to be seen by me.

 

Erm, Benteke? Or does he not count seeing as our current predicament means we're unlikely to keep hold of him? Or maybe you don't rate him? 

 

If we can sign one player of his caliber every window we will be doing well. Eventually one or two of them will stick and we will start to rise up the table. Supplementation is key and the likes of Westwood, Lowton and Vlaar are more than welcome too. I wouldn't consider any of them to be "dead wood", certainly not at the moment. 

 

There will always be the occasional El Ahmadi and Bennett, that's the risk you take when you're attempting a complete rebuild on what is in effect a meager budget. But importantly, we're not saddled with 5 year £50k a week deals and in Bennetts case should it not work out he's young enough and raw enough for somebody to give him a fresh start. Though I personally think he has enough talent to make a decent winger.

 

In any event, if you can't see a change in the policy now then you never will.  

Posted

My concern is, that there seems to be an assumption  that the signing of ineffective players has stopped....I'm to be convinced.

 

I tend to be more inclined to say we are still creating deadwood faster than we are getting rid of it.

 

I havn't seen any budding Gareth Bales or Theo Walcotts in our ranks.

 

Whether some of those signed from the lower reaches remain  to be seen by me.

 

Erm, Benteke? Or does he not count seeing as our current predicament means we're unlikely to keep hold of him? Or maybe you don't rate him? 

 

If we can sign one player of his caliber every window we will be doing well. Eventually one or two of them will stick and we will start to rise up the table. Supplementation is key and the likes of Westwood, Lowton and Vlaar are more than welcome too. I wouldn't consider any of them to be "dead wood", certainly not at the moment. 

 

There will always be the occasional El Ahmadi and Bennett, that's the risk you take when you're attempting a complete rebuild on what is in effect a meager budget. But importantly, we're not saddled with 5 year £50k a week deals and in Bennetts case should it not work out he's young enough and raw enough for somebody to give him a fresh start. Though I personally think he has enough talent to make a decent winger.

 

In any event, if you can't see a change in the policy now then you never will.  

 

 

One swallow don't make a summer.

 

He is one of the reasons I mentioned it.

Posted

 

My concern is, that there seems to be an assumption  that the signing of ineffective players has stopped....I'm to be convinced.

 

I tend to be more inclined to say we are still creating deadwood faster than we are getting rid of it.

 

I havn't seen any budding Gareth Bales or Theo Walcotts in our ranks.

 

Whether some of those signed from the lower reaches remain  to be seen by me.

 

Erm, Benteke? Or does he not count seeing as our current predicament means we're unlikely to keep hold of him? Or maybe you don't rate him? 

 

If we can sign one player of his caliber every window we will be doing well. Eventually one or two of them will stick and we will start to rise up the table. Supplementation is key and the likes of Westwood, Lowton and Vlaar are more than welcome too. I wouldn't consider any of them to be "dead wood", certainly not at the moment. 

 

There will always be the occasional El Ahmadi and Bennett, that's the risk you take when you're attempting a complete rebuild on what is in effect a meager budget. But importantly, we're not saddled with 5 year £50k a week deals and in Bennetts case should it not work out he's young enough and raw enough for somebody to give him a fresh start. Though I personally think he has enough talent to make a decent winger.

 

In any event, if you can't see a change in the policy now then you never will.  

 

 

One swallow don't make a summer.

 

He is one of the reasons I mentioned it.

 

One swallow doesn't make a summer indeed, but it certainly renders your post null and void. 

Posted

agree DDID.  Personally I think along with the high earners we have players like Lichaj, Herd, Bannan, Albrighton who are just not good enough.  Would've put Delph there too but he has been good of late.

Posted

agree DDID.  Personally I think along with the high earners we have players like Lichaj, Herd, Bannan, Albrighton who are just not good enough.  Would've put Delph there too but he has been good of late.

 

We do. But players like those, say we have 5 of them earning £10-15k a week, they are reasonably handy to have around. Sure it's an expense, but we do need to have players in and around the periphery just to make up the numbers and be used in a tight spot. It may well be that one or two of them, such as Delph (though he always has been reasonably talented), become valued members of the squad. Either that or they're replaced by the next batch of youngsters. 

 

As it stands right now we'll still need a couple of those you mention next season regardless of what happens. In my opinion. 

 

When we talk about "dead wood" it's unclear to me what we actually mean. It's entirely dependent on where we want to be in a couple of years, should we survive this one. If we're talking top half then it's much easier to list the players we'd like to keep. 

 

Interesting to see N'Zogbia mentioned quite a bit early on in this thread too. He's pulling us up by the bootstraps at the minute.

Posted

When we talk about "dead wood" it's unclear to me what we actually mean.

 

Surely it means players we are paying for but not utilizing? Otherwise it just becomes a list of unpopular players (remind me as I've forgotten: Is Bannan, Ireland, Holman or Clark our latest scapegoat?)

 

That being the case, only Given and Hutton could be considered "deadwood" - though even Given got a couple of cup games.

Posted

Describing Bent as deadwood is indeed ridiculous and is the sort of thing makes Villa fans a little bit of a laughing stock amongst other fans.

When Bent plays well, he scores 1 goal every 2 games. We desperately need that goal power now. I would say this is a test of whether we can be a grown-up club capable of competing in the top half of the premier league or higher, and a test of whether Lambert can be an effective manager of teams with properly talented (if somewhat temperamental) players or if he can only deal with eager young players without proven premiership quality.

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