drat01 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Some classic (and untrue) lies being spouted here by the usual Tory supporters. Funny how (using AWOl as an example) the selling off of many of the publicly owned bodies is only seen as a bad thing in certain threads. The "rot" as such came in very much under Thatcher and things like favoured policies of the Tory party in such things as erosion of workers rights are part of the whole cocktail that has not helped this country at all. Maybe Thatcher and her no such thing as society should be considered especially as you still see evidence of that today. Smiling at the reference to Brown and the gold thing, it's the stock answer that gets trawled out without any real thought as to what is being said. The other thing that nationalist right wingers typically fail to see (and note the word typically) is the changing of the world. As someone who has worked in many many countries and continue to do so, the changing shape of the economies will obviously have a major factor on lifestyles in what was the established world. Those like UKIP though prefer to see the UK as some 1950's society, unfortunately for them though those days will never return and those countries and more importantly people who will prosper are those who embrace change and those who don't hide behind artificial man made things like borders when looking at the bigger picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Something very is very wrong with it. In terms of many of the important macro indicators (like growth, consumption, investment, productivity) it is one of the few 'major' economies in the world to have not returned to pre-crisis levels in those variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 not sure I agree with Drat, If the rot set in with maggie, that suggests everything was great before her. It clearly wasn't. In fact she got in because things were so bad. However. I'm not blaming any party as such. I think the rot set in following the second world war. Agreements were put in place to prevent war and to build up nations. Good things. However that was done but no massive infrastructure was planned for Brittain. Consequently we were still using old factories and machines, but trying to keep up with the modern equivalents we were helping to buy for other countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 2, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 2, 2013 The world keep turning. Britain feel behind in some things (not necessarily a bad thing in many cases), the world changed and left us behind, or we chose to no longer keep up with it. On the other hand, many, many things haven't declined. But they are the quiet fluff that makes life pleasant, that are easy to forget - quality of life things, that generally the average Brit has over a lot of the world's population. They only got better. Sure globalisation did for many industries, or altered them to the extent they're not the same game anymore (the car industry) and the world advanced to the point we couldn't dominate it any longer... but most of us have a nice bed to sleep in tonight, mod cons, hot and cold running electricity, a dishwasher that's called Hotpoint rather than 'Mom', and a safe knowledge that if everything goes wrong theres a half decent hospital and an ambulance service on call tonight (unless you live in Stafford, in which case best take your chances) if things go wrong, and war is far away because Europe decided being in each others pockets worked out better than slaughtering each other... It's not really declined. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 We had an empire spanning almost a quarter of the globe We powered ahead with the first industrial revolution And people don't think we ever had a golden age :shock: The decline ultimately came about as other countries caught us up and in some cases over took us That and Gordon Brown of course .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 What caused decline? In economic terms, the decline of traditional industries was largely driven by failure to invest, failure to innovate, failure to anticipate changing markets. In part, that was to do with a growing feeling that "making things" was less worthwhile than the more parasitic activities which don't create value, but instead appropriate it. That had been taking shape for a very long time. If there's one event which captures and reflects those long term trends, it's the deregulation of finance that took place under Thatcher. The Big Bang. That didn't cause the elevation of the short-sighted hunt for making profits by buying and selling, instead of investing in wealth creation, but it reflected it, empowered it, paid homage to it. If there's one thing which at the same time embodied the unhealthy trend towards the parasitism of the financiers, and also sowed the seeds for later financial collapse, it was this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) If its Godwin's law when any Internet topic turns to Hitler Can we propose Drats law whereby any problem the UK has ever suffered invariably gets blamed on Thatcher Do I have a seconder ? :-) Edited January 2, 2013 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Do I have a seconder ? Is that some sort of hatchback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 :Confused : I'm sure I only typed "second " !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Is that some sort of hatchback? A watch maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 We had an empire spanning almost a quarter of the globe And people don't think we ever had a golden age :shock: Are you being serious ? Our historic imperialism is not something to admire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I blame videogames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'm lovin' the fact that the smart adverts are trying to sell me a master thatcher that does long straw combed wheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Are you being serious ? Our historic imperialism is not something to admire. Well I beg to differ on that one , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Well I beg to differ on that one , Why ? Is bullying on a planetary scale a noble feat ? Edited January 2, 2013 by Brumerican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Has Britain's lax immigration policy down the years been a net positive/negative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) edit Edited January 2, 2013 by Brumerican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Why ? Is bullying on planetary scale a noble feat ? It's not bullying , it's conquest and its gone on since the dawn of time, if not us it would only have been someone else and the difference being We helped some of these countries transition to an industrialised economy, as well as giving a code of laws and efficient system of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 It's not bullying , it's conquest and its gone on since the dawn of time, if not us it would only have been someone else and the difference being We helped some of these countries transition to an industrialised economy, as well as giving a code of laws and efficient system of government. Blimey. I thought I would have to explain some of the negatives associated with imperialism but you did it all by yourself. So what if it has been done since the dawn of time, it does not make it right, and saying that if we didn't act like rocket polishers then someone else would is no excuse whatsoever . It wasn't our right to impose our values on other nations no matter how you dress it up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Some classic (and untrue) lies being spouted here by the usual Tory supporters. Funny how (using AWOl as an example) the selling off of many of the publicly owned bodies is only seen as a bad thing in certain threads. The "rot" as such came in very much under Thatcher and things like favoured policies of the Tory party in such things as erosion of workers rights are part of the whole cocktail that has not helped this country at all. Maybe Thatcher and her no such thing as society should be considered especially as you still see evidence of that today. Smiling at the reference to Brown and the gold thing, it's the stock answer that gets trawled out without any real thought as to what is being said. The other thing that nationalist right wingers typically fail to see (and note the word typically) is the changing of the world. As someone who has worked in many many countries and continue to do so, the changing shape of the economies will obviously have a major factor on lifestyles in what was the established world. Those like UKIP though prefer to see the UK as some 1950's society, unfortunately for them though those days will never return and those countries and more importantly people who will prosper are those who embrace change and those who don't hide behind artificial man made things like borders when looking at the bigger picture. With the erosion of workers' rights, I have a really shit job that gets paid below the national average and I have all the rights in the world I could ask for, in fact there are people I work with who utterly take the piss. In fact I find the whole thing about unions not needing half the members to vote in order to go on strike completely bizarre. I know Labour brought in the minimum wage but am I right in thinking that very little else has changed since Thatcher's days for workers' rights? I think we're all pretty cushty even considering we're in a double dipper, Britain's not in decline any more than any other country. Much of the world economy was built on money that never existed and it is righting itself, that's all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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