Jump to content

If Britain is in decline what caused it?


PauloBarnesi
 Share

Recommended Posts

Following on from the Thatcher discussion, what (and if) has caused Britain’s decline? Or are we as great as we used to be? We can’t really build ships, dig coal, make steel, build trains in any quantity, yet we can win gold medals in abundance, and have creative industries that are the envy of the world. We can build luxury cars, but we don’t own the companies for the main part that own. Britain has one of the great distinctive cultures of the world, but we aren’t the same as we were... Or maybe for a small island we still over achieve?

Are you proud to be British (if you are)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VT Supporter

At the risk of continuing the Maggie-bashing, I'd say its in part due to her belief that manufacturing was beneath us and that we could make more money being a services leader.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do very well here, people will always get misty eyed for a golden era that never really existed (I'm sure in twenty years some people will pine for today) but to suggest that we used to be great and now we are shit is just a fallacy. Globalisation is seen to it that our manufacturing based economy is turning towards a service based economy but there is no need to panic, it wasn't that long ago that nearly everybody in this country was a farmer and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that people freaked the **** out when the industrial revolution introduced a lot of machinery to every day lives and destroyed a lot of jobs in agriculture. People found something else to do and I think it is beyond debate that the quality of life in this country improved greatly in the long term. It might not happen on that scale again, but I genuinely cant think of many countries in the world I would rather live in than the UK.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One man one vote! And you da man!

Interesting theory:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.

The wheel hasn't quite turned full circle for the UK yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Following on from the Thatcher discussion, what (and if) has caused Britain’s decline?

I suppose it depends what you mean by a decline.

Whatever it may be, I think that there will be much larger problems to come when economic power has fully shifted to the east - most especially for those whose fortunes are tied to the economy at home.

Edit: It may well affect some of those higher up the economic and social ladder but the amount to which it does will depend upon how mobile their capital is.

Edited by snowychap
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting theory:

The wheel hasn't quite turned full circle for the UK yet.

Add to that the Islamic Philosopher Ibn Khaldoun said that great dynasties only last three generations, as virtue and discipline within the group/tribe/nation is gradually replaced by decadence, greed and idleness. Perhaps it's not only democracies that are doomed to fail but decline is necessary for ultimate renewal.

On the other point yes, proud to be British, but based more on experience of other cultures than misty eyed romanticism of my own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting theory:

The wheel hasn't quite turned full circle for the UK yet.

You left out the bit about monarchy:

The famous "why democracies fail" quotation is

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You left out the bit about monarchy:

Interesting how many of the countries that lead the various "well ain't this just a swell place to live" polls are actually Constitutional Monarchies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

Interesting how many of the countries that lead the various "well ain't this just a swell place to live" polls are actually Constitutional Monarchies.

Is there a proven connection?

Which of these places is one talking about?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there a proven connection?

Which of these places is one talking about?

One is talking about Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland etc. I think there is a correlation.

Top 10 highly developed countries in 2012

From 1-10:

Norway

Australia

Netherlands

USA

New Zealand

Canada

Ireland

Liechtenstein

Germany

Sweden

7 out of 10 are Constitutional Monarchies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VT Supporter

Global historico-socioeconomic forces.

"Proud" to be British? No. Happy to be British? Sure.

Pride (and its flipside, shame) is one of my personal "deadly sins". But that's possibly one for another thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One is talking about Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland etc. I think there is a correlation.

Top 10 highly developed countries in 2012

From 1-10:

Norway

Australia

Netherlands

USA

New Zealand

Canada

Ireland

Liechtenstein

Germany

Sweden

7 out of 10 are Constitutional Monarchies.

The defining characteristic is that they aren't real monarchies, but places which have kept some hereditary family as a chocolate-box footnote. Places like Bahrein and Saudi, which actually function as monarchies in respect of political power, are vicious, repressive places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

exclamation-mark-man-user-icon-with-png-and-vector-format-227727.png

Ad Blocker Detected

This site is paid for by ad revenue, please disable your ad blocking software for the site.

Â