sutherland Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 The plan is to sell given, Along with hutton, warnock, bent, dunne,ireland and nzog so we can buy some more division 2-3 players!.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 No point benching him unless he actually needs a rest. It's weird to say but the guy that let in 15 goals in 3 games has been our best player. He could have saved maybe 2 of the 15 goals but I am being a bit harsh with that. Given wouldn't do better than Guzan. Prior to the 3 games, Guzan was doing extremely well. well nobody will ever actually know if he would have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtGin Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I think we should stick with Guzan. It's not really his fault the guys in front of him can't defend properly. He's been playing quite well this season so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwpzxjor1 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 We need experience in defence more than in goal. Yes, maybe Given may be able to organise the defence better - but Wigan's first goal was such atrocious marking I'm not sure any keeper can organise that. And the second two were just weak bits of defending - I can't see that being attributed to lack of experience or organisational ability from Brad. And Brad is a better shot stopper. So unless there's some evidence that our lack of ability at the back is through poor communication or instructions from Brad, then Given has nothing more to offer. It's centre half where we need a new rock and experience to marshall and make sure people mark well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Butland, N'daw, David Murphy. starting to see a trend here CI Behave I've also said Long, Morrison, Brunt and O'Hara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KobiV Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Guzan has done ok, and credit where credit is due, however, it is because of the incompetence in front of him, that it has made him look better that he has been. One or two good saves and he's our player of the season. He's done well and has been one of our better players, but he's still be only ok. He was poor yesterday and should have done a lot better . Guzan's is inexperienced at this level, he doesn't lead or organise. Given is a leader, players respect him and look up to him. I've seen both play, I can rarely hear Guzan, you can hear Given screaching even on tv. He's spent years managing that joke of a Newcastle defence and the Irish backs weren't much better. He's always been a voice in the dressing room, and I imagine that's missing now, it's hard to motivate the players when you are not playing yourself. He is the back against the wall player you need, and to be honest, we've nothing to lose. He'll bring calm to our defence and that is so balty needed right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Echo the ridiculous thread sentiments. I can't think of a goal that we conceded in the last 3 games that was down to an error of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Guzan is just about the only player who can hold his head up this season. If Given had been in goal against Chelsea we would now be the answer to the quiz question - who was the first team ever to concede double figures in a single Premier League game?! I actually feel quite sad for Guzan. He's spent years here sat on the bench whilst a decent team was out playing. Now he's been thrown in with the shit! I also feel sorry for him for not being picked for that league cup final against United a few years ago when it was his goalkeeping feats at Sunderland that kept us in the cup earlier on. I thought it a bit harsh on him not to get picked for the final. Trouble is, this time around, Given has been picked for the cup games, so we could get to another final and Guzan might miss out again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KobiV Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Guzan is just about the only player who can hold his head up this season. If Given had been in goal against Chelsea we would now be the answer to the quiz question - who was the first team ever to concede double figures in a single Premier League game?! I actually feel quite sad for Guzan. He's spent years here sat on the bench whilst a decent team was out playing. Now he's been thrown in with the shit! I also feel sorry for him for not being picked for that league cup final against United a few years ago when it was his goalkeeping feats at Sunderland that kept us in the cup earlier on. I thought it a bit harsh on him not to get picked for the final. Trouble is, this time around, Given has been picked for the cup games, so we could get to another final and Guzan might miss out again! Everyone has been poor, including him, but one or two good saves amongst average form and he's our better player. We shouldn't accept average. Given will settle the defence. Guzan has had all season to do so and he hasn't, it's gotten progressively worse as time has gone on when it should have gotten better. 15 goals in 3 games is unacceptable at this level. He was slow to react yesterday, but he gets a free pass because he makes 1 or 2 good saves? I'm sorry, it's not good enough. Given was dropped for one mistake after a summer of being injured and unfit, and rightfully has been given Cup games and has done well. Players respect him, and he's a voice in the dressing room, which must be hard to do when he's not playing. Being slightly better than average in a team of shite isn't good enough. They all need to stand up including him. 15 goals in 3 games, it can't really get any worse. At least Given will settle our defence, and will lead from the back like he's done for his entire career. If he brings nothing else he'd bring that. Not one player on the pitch has earned their pay, or their position. Given, Bent, Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, Ireland and Nzogbia bring them all in and try to salvage something because we're going down otherwise. Edited December 30, 2012 by KobiV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Given dont command his area at all. Big problem last season, set pieces and corners all due to Given's inabiity to command his own area. Guzan is dropping a little yes, but due to our useless defence, he is losing confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KobiV Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Given dont command his area at all. Big problem last season, set pieces and corners all due to Given's inabiity to command his own area. Guzan is dropping a little yes, but due to our useless defence, he is losing confidence. Guzan doesn't do much better, he does not command his defence at all. They are not settled, they looked like they were put together yesterday and that's really not good enough at this stage of the year. Making one or two good saves in a game where you are otherwise as poor as the outfield players doesn't justify keeping your place. Bringing Given in will settle the backline that badly needs it, even if he brings nothing else that Guzan could, that alone is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 No way. Given would never settle the backline. Did you watch the Norwich game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 30, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2012 Shay Given is one of the least communicative goalkeepers on the planet. His mouth barely opens when he's lining up a wall from a free kick. He is usually completely silent. Couple it to his penchant for sticking rididly to his line and never commanding his box and I don't think I could argue he'd settle anything. He's a man who made a career from being a good reaction shot topper sat behind suicidal defences for a team happy to play to the media. Guzan is a far, far better choice right now and thus, he has the gloves. Given should be out of the door shortly, if we can manage to find someone daft enough to pay him like we've been doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Dont agree bringing Given back in, I think he is finished here, although id be willing to give him a game to confirm my theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwhitters Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I actually agree. Everyone recognises we need experienced heads. We actually have players at the club already. A fair few are injured at the moment but if everyone was fit I would go back to 4-4-2. GK: Given RB: Lowton CB: Vlaar CB: Dunne LB: Bennett RM: Holman/Gabby CM: Ireland CM: Westwood LM: N'Zogbia ST: Benteke ST: Bent Automatically more experienced and a lot more Prem experience. I don't like Gabby on the wing as much as the next man, but if we have experienced players already here, then lets use them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KobiV Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Shay Given is one of the least communicative goalkeepers on the planet. His mouth barely opens when he's lining up a wall from a free kick. He is usually completely silent. Couple it to his penchant for sticking rididly to his line and never commanding his box and I don't think I could argue he'd settle anything. He's a man who made a career from being a good reaction shot topper sat behind suicidal defences for a team happy to play to the media. Guzan is a far, far better choice right now and thus, he has the gloves. Given should be out of the door shortly, if we can manage to find someone daft enough to pay him like we've been doing. Have you ever sat behind the goal with Given in it? Or Guzan for that matter? His mouth barely opens when setting up a wall? https://www.youtube....1u5zYOKI How you described Given, which I very much disagree with (Given has been a top keeper for over 10 years) is exactly what Guzan is doing now. Given was never one for the media, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. 15 goals in 3 games is not near good enough I'm afraid. Edited December 30, 2012 by KobiV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Given will play vs Ipswich in the FA cup Not sure about the Bradford game ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Given 'was' a top goal keeper for 10 years!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I actually agree. Everyone recognises we need experienced heads. We actually have players at the club already. A fair few are injured at the moment but if everyone was fit I would go back to 4-4-2. GK: Given RB: Lowton CB: Vlaar CB: Dunne LB: Bennett RM: Holman/Gabby CM: Ireland CM: Westwood LM: N'Zogbia ST: Benteke ST: Bent Automatically more experienced and a lot more Prem experience. I don't like Gabby on the wing as much as the next man, but if we have experienced players already here, then lets use them! Wow. No thanks to that XI. Guzan for Given, Clark/Baker for Dunne, Anyone for N'Zogbia and Weimann for Bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoAvfc Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Shouting at players telling them to move left and right in a wall, is very different to organising your defence in normal play. Guzan every day of the week for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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