butler50 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 This was a particularly hard defeat to take, not because we lost, we lose a lot but because our pride just sapped away as the game went on, it was a truly terrible performance, as bad as any i've seen from a top flight team in a very, very long time. We were unable to get close to them, even get the ball and on the rare occasions that we did we were unable to keep possession for more than a few seconds, it's hard to accept sometimes that they do this for a living. I genuinely thought that the defeat against Chelsea would have a devastating effect on the team because losing so badly starts to instil a psychological issue, people begin to question stuff, Lambert starts to question stuff, then there's all sorts of confusion, pulling in different directions. 8-0 score lines just can't happen but today we saw a team obliterated in confidence as a result and just simply moving around the pitch not knowing why they were there or what they were meant to do. It was an incredibly soul destroying performance. Without being a doom-monger it's hard to see at the moment how the team will recover from these two defeats, we desperately need leaders, strong characters in the dressing room and I don't know if we have them. I, like loads of people are happy at what Lambert is trying to forge here but it concerns me greatly that he believes he can do something, in such a tough league with such little experience and fragility. There are no positives whatsoever to take from the last two games, they will learn nothing from this, yet we're all carrying this humiliation that's been served up in front of the viewing world. An extraordinary Christmas and a re-think on the current strategy is very much needed in the coming weeks before any more serious damage is inflicted on the club and its fans. I totally agree here. As it stands I honestly dont no if we will beat Wigan on sat. Lambert i was on the fence with and at times I see what he is trying to do. But he continually changes the midfield and line up by 1 player or more and i dont think that the team even gets chance to settle. If these 2 games dont open his eyes n make him think then its worrying becuase if this our 'purple patch' then its come perfectly for wigan and southampton and im worried. Go back to 4-4-2 and start again Beat Wigan and the world will look a lot more claret and blue. UTV ! really, can you see us winning????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 now i've calmed down a bit - I can maybe admit myself and probably others are over reacting, the squad Lambert inherited was poor and his attempts to strengthen it were never going to come off in one transfer window. His ethos of young and promising players and pulling talent from abroad and lower leagues is something we have lacked and needed for a long time now and until two games ago people were starting to see what he was trying to do. I personally don't know if the way he has treated, Hutton, Warnock and Collins has really paid off, but you can see why he wanted to change things. In my opinion though if you are going to sack off three experienced (if out of form) players, you need to replace them with three experienced but better players. Vlaar is unproven and not without his merits and faults, Lowton is promising, Bennett is out of his depth. I don't agree how he has handled Bent, Ireland and Nzogbia, the last two may not have/ever live up to expectations but they still have the most talent and experience we have in midfield, Bent in my opinion didn't deserve to be humiliated by being dropped in favour of Bowery in the bench/squad - even if he is a stroppy egotistical player who is hard to accomodate tactically when things aren't going well. Why we have imploded I am not quite sure, injuries, over reliance on average players.... maybe, we genuinely seem to be having some shocking luck, every interception or 50/50 challenge today won ended up bouncing straight to a Spurs player, every time Chelsea shot on goal it went in. Clark, Bannan, Herd, Delph and Lichaj have not shown me anything more than the Championship form they should under the last three managers. Ok so maybe Clark deserved a run in the team as did Baker but they still make rookie mistakes and cost us goals. You can't blame Lambert for using his judgment to give these players a chance though, but what he has to do is learn from what is happening now and use the Jan transfer window wisely. Benteke suffers when the team suffers, just like Bent does - people forget how young he us. I thought him Weimann and Gabby as a front three looked really good. Holman and KEA need to be used as back up as both have looked pretty ropey. Lerner isn't going to sack Lambert and throwing money at the team isn't a solution on it's own, but i've never seen a time when we need bodies more than ever, not even world class players - just players that can do a job in the premiership. Lambert has to accept that if he wants young players to flourish at the foundation of his team then he needs some short term thinking, meaning we need proven prem players probably on high wages and shorter term contracts - to allow us to survive while Lambert and Lerner's cheap youthful utopia takes root. Great post and the last paragraph in particular is what should have happened before the season started. It didn't and we are paying for it now. I just hope we can still attract enough quality to our club to get us out of the mess that Lambert is continuing to create? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Then in Jan we need to do business I hate to use it as an example a Dugarry-esque signing. Not Robbie Keane. But maybe Frank Lampard. Agree Lampard is exactly the signing we need in midfield but he will go to uncle Harry if he leaves Chelsea in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butler50 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Great post and the last paragraph in particular is what should have happened before the season started. It didn't and we are paying for it now. I just hope we can still attract enough quality to our club to get us out of the mess that Lambert is continuing to create? I too like what your saying here. Bent has been unlucky and my fear if he left is we will never get a player of his calibre/price tag ever again. Key for Lambert like you said is if he learns from this. If he doesnt we are doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I just hope he isn't as stubborn as he appears or we are doomed . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avflife Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Shocking performance, glad I left at the 80 minute mark yesterday couldn't watch anymore of that so called Premiership Football. Enough problems occurred during those 90 mins 1) the midfield again (like against Chelsea) got physically bullied by the Spurs midfield, proving we need at least two new midfielders (a DCM and ACM) come January 2) the formation needs changing, Holman isn't a striker and you can't play 3-5-2 against wingers like Bale, its like playing Russian Roulette with yourself and Benteke still needs to learn the offside rule, I counted 6 in about 80 minutes 3) Lambert should of replaced the experience we lost in the Summer with alternative experience, a back three of Clark, Baker and Herd is always going to be exposed, would prefer if we were going to play this formation to see us playing Vlaar, Baker and Dunne. The last two results just prove how far we are now away from the top 6, haven't got a clue how that's possible within 2 seasons :S Edited December 27, 2012 by Avflife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Very negative set up by the manager and we got what we deserved. Bennett is woeful, Herd is awful, Clark average, Delph useless, KEH is invisible and Holman is mediocre. Ship the lot out and start again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reykjavik Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Agree Lampard is exactly the signing we need in midfield but he will go to uncle Harry if he leaves Chelsea in January. To be honest, I think this would be smart move for Lampard. If he comes, he can change bad team to average (or maybe to good). He had done great job for Chelsea, but is not as important as before for them. For us he would be our most important player. He would renew his football life, and end up as idol and a good role model in two clubs. Aston Villa has history but is not competing Chelsea. Chelsea fan would not put up against this move. But to be honest, more honest than above. I have no believe he is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avflife Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Lampard to Villa, absolutely deluded talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8pints Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 We desperately need to sort out the midfield and which players are put there and what their roles are. No support or link for defence and attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 What I want to know is, why are we playing 3 at the back against teams like Chelski and Spurs ? I can understand 3 at the back against Wigan,QPR,Reading but against teams that are going for a place in europe ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) What I want to know is, why are we playing 3 at the back against teams like Chelski and Spurs ? I can understand 3 at the back against Wigan,QPR,Reading but against teams that are going for a place in europe ??? We played it against Chelsea because it worked against Liverpool, which was a mistake. I actually thought it shaped up more as a five against Spurs, which is (obviously) less suicidal but less ambitious. For all of Spurs' first half superiority, I thought we contained them relatively well - admittedly largely because we had numbers, Nathan Baker and Brad Guzan - until we lost Baker. Then it all went to shit because we/Lambert were clueless in how to respond. That's partly down to injuries too, I guess. Edited December 28, 2012 by ChrisVillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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