U.S. Politics

[AVFCforever1991]

[peterms]

How is the Adderall claim any different to the claim that the kid might have been high on pot at the time?

Even if the guy was on medication it would not be enough to prove murder over self defence.

 

Martin's body was tested for drugs, wasn't it?  I thought I read he had traces of cannabis in his system.

 

The question is whether the influence of drugs might have played any part in what happened.

 

In Zimmerman's case, the line of questioning would be whether it was self-defence or whether he had sought out a confrontation.  If he had had Adderall in his system (or Temazepam, which I read he also uses) or alcohol (which complicates and changes the effect of both drugs) or anything else, then it would be reasonable to ask whether being under the influence of something known to be associated with causing feelings of hostility, paranoia and aggression, had played a part in his actions.  In the same way, you would ask whether alcohol use had played a part in a car crash.

 

I have no idea whether Zimmerman was under the influence of any drug at the time.  But I'm pretty certain that if the roles had been reversed, drug testing would have happened.  In fact, it did.  Why would you only test the dead man, I wonder, unless the assumption you have already made is that he was the guilty one?  The impression given is that the police simply accepted Zimmerman's story.  Is that what is meant to happen, when someone has just been shot dead?

[peterms]

 

 

If what I have read is correct, then according to Zimmerman's account of events, he wasn't just "feeling threatened", he was mounted by Martin and being repeatedly punched in the head and threatened with death. He had stopped following the kid and was in fact approached and punched by him. I'm not saying that he is definitely telling the truth or that it in any way excuses shooting him, but there seems to be an awful lot of presumption that Zimmerman is lying based on not much at all.

The "feeling threatened" point is about the "stand your ground" defence, which wasn't raised in this case.

That's (kind of) what I'm saying. He wasn't "feeling threatened" - it went beyond a feeling - he was actually violently attacked (if he is to be believed).

 

 

I think we're talking at cross purposes.  "Stand your ground" was not an issue in this trial.  "Feeling threatened" relates to "stand your ground". 

 

My point is not in any respect whether Zimmerman "felt threatened".  It is that in the entirely hypothetical event of Martin having shot Zimmerman because he was stalking him, Martin could have used this as a defence.

[leviramsey]

Zimmerman claimed the right to stand his ground.

IINM, no "stand your ground" claims were made at the trial. At most, the possibility of such a claim may have caused the police to decide not to arrest him.

[snowychap]

Am I right in thinking that this couldn't happen in this country? Not that I mean the crime couldn't happen, but that the guy would go down, probably for murder, and it would be fairly cut and dried?

 

Take out the gun and then it would appear that it rests upon the idea of self defence (the defence claimed the dead bod had a weapon, the concrete slab, didn't it?). Surely that applies equally in this country as in any other.

I'm not saying I'm on board with the US justice system or the verdict in the case but people need to be proven to be guilty, well, unless they're terrrrrrrists.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Yeah, I realise that now. My mistake.

 

Still, it does leave a bad taste in the mouth that Zimmerman's self defence argument will forever remain unchallenged because the only other witness is dead.

 

I don't think we've heard the end of this, anyway.

 

Not that it'll **** change anything.

[Jon]

 

Am I right in thinking that this couldn't happen in this country? Not that I mean the crime couldn't happen, but that the guy would go down, probably for murder, and it would be fairly cut and dried?

 

Take out the gun and then it would appear that it rests upon the idea of self defence (the defence claimed the dead bod had a weapon, the concrete slab, didn't it?). Surely that applies equally in this country as in any other.

I'm not saying I'm on board with the US justice system or the verdict in the case but people need to be proven to be guilty, well, unless they're terrrrrrrists.

 

Agreed, but the gun is inherent/key to the whole thing, and highlights the differences between here and the US. In this country, if you pursue someone with a loaded gun down a dark street and that person ends up shot dead by yourself, well, you're going to struggle with your defence.  

[Awol]

Yeah, I realise that now. My mistake.

 

Still, it does leave a bad taste in the mouth that Zimmerman's self defence argument will forever remain unchallenged because the only other witness is dead.

 

I don't think we've heard the end of this, anyway.

 

Not that it'll **** change anything.

Serious question, why do you care so much what happens in America?

[AVFCforever1991]

Journalist Michael Hastings' Body Cremated by Authorities Against Family's Wishes (Video)

 

Journalist Michael Hastings’ body was reportedly cremated by Los Angeles authorities against his family’s wishes, destroying possible evidence of his mysterious death in a car accident on June 18.

Hastings was killed when his Mercedes crashed into a tree at a high speed and exploded.

Only hours earlier, Hastings sent an email to friends at Buzzfeed.com stating that he was “onto a big story” and had “to go off the radar for a bit.” He also warned his colleagues that they might be questioned about him by authorities.

“A close family friend did confirm that Michael’s body was sent home in an urn, meaning he was cremated and it wasn’t the request of the family... in fact the family wanted Michael’s body to go home," stated San Diego 6 reporter Kimberly Dvorak on Sunday (video below).

According to Dvorak, Hastings spoke with an unidentified attorney before his death who has all the details about the story Hastings was working on when he died.

Hastings had not told his wife about the story “because he said he wanted to protect her from knowing anything so if anything were to happen to him nothing could happen to her,” said Dvorak.

"Despite the LAPD's categorization of the Hasting fatal accident as a 'no [evidence of] foul play,' LAPD continues to ignore FOIA [CPRA in Calif.] requests made by San Diego 6 News for the police report, 9/11 call, autopsy, bomb squad and toxicology reports, or make the Mercedes available for inspection which only fuels conjecture," added Dvorak.

Dvorak also claimed that she has been threatened for investigating Hastings’ death.

For reasons unknown, the LAPD and Los Angeles firefighters were told not to talk to the media about Hastings’ death.

Former White House counter-terrorism expert Richard Clarke stated in June that Hastings' car crash was “consistent with a car cyber attack," in which an automobile is actually controlled by a third party electronically.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5raJDwJv97E

 

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/transportation/cars/journalist-michael-hastings-body-cremated-authorities-against-familys#

Edited July 18, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

 

Serious question, why do you care so much what happens in America?

 

 

I care about asylum seekers being treated like dirt in the UK, for gay people being stoned to death in Saudi Arabia, for women having their vaginas sown up in Somalia, for a feminist punk band being rounded up and locked away in Russia, for whistleblowers being hounded down across the globe, and for every bit of injustice across the globe.

 

Why? Because I'm a naive wee shite that believes in equality for all.

 

Why specifically America? Because, honestly, they were founded on ideals we could all agree with, and they've managed to **** it up.

 

I find America fascinating because it's like a microcosm, and we can see the best and worst of humanity in it.

Edited July 18, 2013 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[peterms]

Tales from the Gulag.

 

When I was young, I read Solzhenitsyn, "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch".

 

Now I am older, it seems the equivalent is reports from the US torture camps.  The literary quality's not as good, but the stories of brutal torture by desensitised thugs are pretty similar.  Leader of the free world, my arse.

 

And where is our government in demanding the release of this man?  Going through the motions, no action at all.

 

Guards are sexually assaulting me, says the last Briton in Guantanamo Bay

 

Shaker Aamer, who is on hunger strike after being detained by US for 11 years, tells of brutal daily cell searches

 

The last British resident in Guantanamo Bay claims he is being assaulted, sometimes sexually, during prison searches as he continues a hunger strike against his unlawful detention.

 

In a declassified phone call with his lawyer last week, Shaker Aamer, who has been held in the Cuban prison for more than 11 years without being charged with any offence, said he still faces “forced cell extractions” on a daily basis.

 

“They flip me over for the search. Mostly, that’s just an assault, sometimes a sexual assault. We call it the Gitmo massage,” Mr Aamer said. “There is meant to be a board, like a wooden stretcher, and they are meant to roll me on. But now they don’t have them. Now they carry me like a sack of potatoes, which is really painful for me.”

 

Along with scores of other detainees, Mr Aamer, who is 46, has been on hunger strike since January over conditions at the camp and a lack of progress on individual cases. The comedian Frankie Boyle recently went on a week’s sympathy hunger strike to draw attention to Mr Aamer’s plight.

 

The latest developments come barely six weeks after David Cameron, said he had raised Mr Aamer’s case with US President Barack Obama during the G8 conference amid concerns that the US is trying to render the man known as prisoner 239 to Saudi Arabia.

 

A British resident, Mr Aamer was born in Saudi Arabia but has a wife and four children in London. He had indefinite leave to remain in the UK when he was arrested in Afghanistan in 2001. He claims he was doing charity work; the US claims he was assisting  the Taliban.

 

Earlier this month, the US announced two Algerians detainees would be released from the prison but said there were no plans to return detainees to Britain. Mr Aamer’s lawyers said this could be because the US wanted to send him to Saudi Arabia where he could be silenced from speaking out about the torture and rendition, including sometimes in the presence of UK secret service agents, he said.

 

Mr Aamer’s lawyer in the US, Clive Stafford Smith, said: “Surely the US cannot think they can render him involuntarily for further abuse in Saudi Arabia, never to see his British wife and kids, and never to give evidence against his torturers in the ongoing criminal investigation by the Met Police?” 

 

“They flip me over for  the search. Mostly, that’s just an assault, sometimes a sexual assault”

 

We call the searches the ‘Gitmo Massage’

 

The FCE (Forcible Cell Extraction team) are still using the Darth Vader uniforms after all these years. They use some female FCE members now. They bear down on my cell – stomp! Stomp! STOMP!

 

“239!” shouts the WC [Watch Commander]. I have heard these words in my sleep. “239! Lay down on your stomach! Your hands behind your back! Cross your legs! DO NOT RESIST THE TEAM!”

 

Then comes the translator. He says the same in Arabic, in a thin, reedy, whiny voice. Then comes the front guy in the FCE team, shouting. “I see the detainee! He’s laying on his back! He’s in the middle of the pen! He doesn’t have a weapon! The floor is dry! The detainee is dry!” Always the same words, rote.

 

On this occasion, it is about my  on-going protest. I won’t come in from the rec cage without being forced to. I have said what I want to do: just sit there for a week, doing nothing, just sitting. It’s about as non-violent, non-problematic protest as you could imagine, but they won’t let me do it.

 

Ultimately, it’s all about control, and if they feel they are not always in control, then that’s a threat to national security, a threat to the thousands of soldiers with their M16s at Guantánamo.

 

I refuse to do what they tell me, even though I know I am about to get beaten up. Sometimes, you just have to make a stand, however pointless that stand might seem to be.

 

The front guard is called FCE-1. Vooom! He runs at my head. FCE-2 through FCE-5 take their position, one on each arm, one on each leg. FCE-6 is back up.

 

The “Head” guy is the worst. He is meant to “protect” your head, but actually he is grabbing pressure points to subdue you.

 

If I shout, he pushes the pressure points to shut me up.

 

They pin me down.

 

“Leg FCE!” comes the shout and they shackle my legs.

 

“Arm FCE!” and they shackle my arms. They might use steel or plastic shackles, though it’s mostly plastic.

 

Sometimes they get the shackles  on backwards. I shout at the Watch Commander and the Corpsman, who are observing all this, as it’s painful. The Head man squeezes my neck. “Stop resisting!” he shouts.

 

“Team! Prepare to search!” They flip me over for the search. Mostly, that’s just an assault, sometimes a sexual assault. We call it the Gitmo massage. There is meant to be a board, like a wooden stretcher, and they are meant to roll me on. But now they don’t have them. Now they carry me like a sack of potatoes, which is much harder on the guards, and really painful for me.

 

“Team!” shouts FCE-6. “Push the detainee towards me!” They push me like a potato sack.

 

Pat! Pat! Pat! More Gitmo massage.

 

“Team! Prepare to lift!” They are meant to do a fireman’s lift, but they actually seize an arm or a leg and just yank. You are on your side, so one of them tends to be doing a half-nelson on me, in handcuffs. It’s like the Spanish Inquisition torture Strappado — you feel as if your shoulder is being dislocated. 

 

FCE-6 has my head now. He is walking backwards, directing the others. “Watch the stairs! Step! Step! Step!” Up six steps; down six steps; through ten doors. 

 

“Watch Commander! Watch Commander!” I shout. “Look at my hand! It’s going to be broken!”

 

If I try to move my hand, it’s “Stop Resisting! Stop Resisting!”

 

They get me to my cell. It’s been 150 metres. There’s a rec cage three metres from my cell, but they don’t let me use that one. They know then I would make them FCE me every time, as it wouldn’t hurt so much. So they take me 150 metres, through ten doors.

 

“Team! Halt!”

 

“Team! Prepare to lower! Team! Lower!” They are all in touching distance of each other, but they have to shout. They put me on the cold concrete floor on my face.

 

“Key in!” says FCE-6.

 

“Leg’s unsecure!”

 

“Key to Hands!”

 

“Key in!”

 

“Hands unsecure!”

 

“Key out! Leg shackles out! Hand shackles out!”

 

I am on my stomach. The Pig has his hands pushing down on my back. My legs are crossed and pressed up towards my lower back.

 

The Pig is 270lb, and there are 600 more pounds shoving him from behind, doggy style.

 

“239! Stay on the floor! DO NOT GET UP! Do not resist the Team! Stay down until we close the door!”

 

They go out one at a time. One of them falls over backwards. It seems rather comical. I lie still on the floor, because I know what is coming next. If you stay still, they come back in.

 

“239! Do you need medical attention! Do you need Tylenol?”

 

“You fool!” I reply. “You were meant to prevent me from getting hurt. And now you’re telling me I can have a Tylenol.”

 

“239 seems responsive!” he says.

 

Then I start singing. Today, it will be “Get up! Stand up!” by Bob Marley. Last time it was “Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)” by Eurythmics.

 

Shaker Aamer, July 26, 2013

 

[peterms]

Too long to quote.

 

Another account of the nazi nightmare which it seems the US is walking into, unbidden.

[maqroll]

It's a shameful situation, and another stain on this country's reputation. And the fact that Obama has NO balls and hasn't shown the will to shut the whole horrible thing down is a damn disgrace.

 

When Obama won in 2008, he had a democrat majority in the House and Senate with a mandate from voters to close Guantanamo, among many other things.

 

He could have closed the place down within a year. He's a fraud and a failure, and will go down in history as such. 

[AVFCforever1991]

He's a salesman, a very good one at that..

 

Before the election in 2012

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[CrackpotForeigner]

Any other cynics wondering whether it's coincidence that the press bonanza that is the Castro trial and the potential powder keg that is the Manning trial are happening at the same time?

[peterms]

Yeah, I realise that now. My mistake.

 

Still, it does leave a bad taste in the mouth that Zimmerman's self defence argument will forever remain unchallenged because the only other witness is dead.

 

I don't think we've heard the end of this, anyway.

 

Not that it'll **** change anything.

 

Zimmerman's lawyer recognises that it is "inappropriate" for him to visit the factory which made the gun he shot Martin with, and to be photographed shaking hands with an employee and grinning.

[peterms]

Obama visits Sweden, and finds the Swedes have draped orange cloth over the heads of statues, in case Guantanamo has slipped his mind.

[snowychap]

Too long to quote.

 

Another account of the nazi nightmare which it seems the US is walking into, unbidden.

I missed that when first posted.

Who needs a future when you have lemon chicken.

Edit: For an update to that piece, Nabil Hadjarab was indeed one of the two released back to Algeria according to Reprieve.

Edited September 4, 2013 by snowychap

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

At least 12 dead in a shooting at the Washington Navy Yard.

[Dr_Pangloss]

On the subject of Obama. Ralph Nader asked the question almost five years ago now and it looks like we conclusively have the answer.

 

 

Although let's face it, he was never going to be an Uncle Sam.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Dr_Pangloss