U.S. Politics

[peterms]

Saw this in a bookshop...

[Straggler]

Republicans on message as ever

Quote

Sen. Orrin Hatch, the retiring Utah Republican and most-senior GOP senator, strongly dismissed the federal government's allegations that Trump committed two crimes by directing Cohen to make the hush money payments.

Asked if he had any concerns that Trump was implicated, Hatch told CNN: "The Democrats will do anything to hurt this President." Informed it was alleged by federal prosecutors in New York, Hatch said: "OK, but I don't care, all I can say is he's doing a good job as President."

Hatch added, "You're talking about things that happened before he became president."

Representatives for Wellingborough like Hatch really do get my blood boiling.  If the same thing happened to a Democrat President they would be screaming impeachment from the rooftops.  This is awful in that he is blatant that he does not care about the standards inside his own party, totally and utterly self serving, but in these couple of short sentences he is trying to make this about pre president Trump therefore not really about politics.  You know what the prosecutor had to say about this crime and it's influence on politics.

Quote

“While many Americans who desired a particular outcome to the election knocked on doors, toiled at phone banks, or found any number of other legal ways to make their voices heard, Cohen sought to influence the election from the shadows. He did so by orchestrating secret and illegal payments to silence two women who otherwise would have made public their alleged extramarital affairs with Individual-1 [Trump].”

“Cohen clouded a process that Congress has painstakingly sought to keep transparent. The sentence imposed should reflect the seriousness of Cohen’s brazen violations of the election laws and attempt to counter the public cynicism that may arise when individuals like Cohen act as if the political process belongs to the rich and powerful.”

Yes the crime was before Trump was President because it was committed to directly to help him get elected.

The difference in messaging between the Federal Prosecutor and Hatch could not be more stark.  The public cynicism that may arise because the political process belongs to the rich might have something to do with the reaction of people like Hatch who literally say "I don't care" and are apparently perfectly happy to allow a criminal (or unindicted co-conspirator if you prefer) to sit in the WH, with not only no consequences for his actions, but having profited massively from his crimes.  And why are there no consequences?  Because he is rich and powerful and other rich and powerful people are happy with the status quo.

[OutByEaster?]

Did Trump really send people out to a climate change summit this week and have them push the benefits of US coal?

Ah, yes he did.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/that-was-awkward--at-worlds-biggest-climate-conference-us-promotes-fossil-fuels/2018/12/10/aa8600c4-f8ae-11e8-8642-c9718a256cbd_story.html?utm_term=.1954824ab806

Quote

That was awkward — at world’s biggest climate conference, U.S. promotes fossil fuels

This quote stands out.

Quote

“We strongly believe that no country should have to sacrifice economic prosperity or energy security in pursuit of environmental sustainability,” said Wells Griffith, Trump’s adviser.

By "country" in that sentence, it's pretty clear he doesn't mean population - the country is not the American people, it's American business, and he doesn't believe that American business should have to sacrifice economic prosperity just for the sake of the survival of human life on the planet. 

 

 

[blandy]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

By "country" in that sentence, it's pretty clear he doesn't mean population - the country is not the American people, it's American business, and he doesn't believe that American business should have to sacrifice economic prosperity just for the sake of the survival of human life on the planet. 

It’s worse than that OBE. American business of the renewable energy type, solar, wind, etc. was, is and would do just fine, more than fine out of a change to sustainability in energy. I read somewhere that despite Trump there’s more jobs being created in that area than in Coal and so on. So Trump is not protecting American business, that’s not really it at all. He’s protecting donations to the Republicans and expressing profound ignorance and denial about science and evidence and facts, while giving the finger to, well, pretty much everyone else. 

[HanoiVillan]

Once you remember that the Republican party exists only (on a practical level) to advance the interests of American plutocracy, and not really those of many actual voters, it does make more sense. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by HanoiVillan

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Once you remember that the Republican party exists only (on a practical level) to advance the interests of American plutocracy, and not really those of many actual voters, it does make more sense. 

It's hard to make an argument that the Democrat party doesn't exist for exactly the same purpose too in fairness.

[bickster]

24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's hard to make an argument that the Democrat party doesn't exist for exactly the same purpose too in fairness.

With a few notable exceptions, absolutely correct. The whole US system is ludicrous, it needs burning down more than ours and ours is ridiculously anti-democratic, there's is corrupt beyond belief.

[HanoiVillan]

29 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's hard to make an argument that the Democrat party doesn't exist for exactly the same purpose too in fairness.

I don't agree, or at least I don't think it's a useful framing. The parties aren't the same, nor are they mirrors of each other. 

[villakram]

7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't agree, or at least I don't think it's a useful framing. The parties aren't the same, nor are they mirrors of each other. 

If your goal is to move to a better situation than current in some practical manner, sure.

However, in any ideal sense of what would we like political our parties to represent, they're the same.

[sne]

Michael Cohen sentenced to 3 years in prison

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, sne said:

Michael Cohen sentenced to 3 years in prison

There's almost some smock coming from the gun.

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

There's almost some smock coming from the gun.

Considering what he's pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for, any real democracy would have Trump under house arrest by now

[Straggler]

Apparently in similar cases the amount of jail time given to the person who gave the order to commit the crime is significantly longer than the person who received the order and did the actual act.  Trump should be very worried right now.

In related news:

 

  Trump is screwed.  All that remains to be seen is how fast he loses people who will stand with him.

[OutByEaster?]

Will that be real jail time or Epstein jail time?

 

[HanoiVillan]

 

[sne]

 

[peterms]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

There's almost some smock coming from the gun.

Don't bring a Smocking Gun to a needlework fight.

[villakram]

Will the lawyer have proof Trump told him to act illegally? Somehow I doubt he'd be doing time if he had the goods on Trump to trade.

Remember Mr. Cohen has a credibility issue also.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

Will the lawyer have proof Trump told him to act illegally? Somehow I doubt he'd be doing time if he had the goods on Trump to trade.

Remember Mr. Cohen has a credibility issue also.

He taped all the conversations. He even released one into the public domain of Trump telling him to pay one of them off

[LondonLax]

The 3 years he got isn't just about the payoff, Cohen had other issues relating to his taxes which would have extended his sentence. It's hard to say how much the overall sentence was reduced due to his cooperation with the Trump phone tapes. I think his office was raided for them so he might not have gotten much credit for handing them over himself.