U.S. Politics

[Keyblade]

These are the people running the country.

[peterms]

5 hours ago, Keyblade said:

These are the people running the country.

 

If his text is being invaded and Twitter is allowing it to happen, it seems only fair that there should be a wall built around his words, and Twitter should pay for it.

[A'Villan]

16 hours ago, peterms said:

The story says the plea deal was agreed years ago, ie when Trumpy Pumpy was no more than another corrupt grifter.

It's astonishing how the US penal system allows rich people (and banks) to pay money they stole from someone else, to escape the consequences of their criminal behaviour, when the system also locks up people for decades for trivial crimes, or else just shoots them on suspicion of being black: and yet there is no popular uprising against this.

I gather today is the anniversay of the murder of Fred Hampton, shot in his bed for the crime of providing pre-school breakfasts to black kids.

Fred Hampton was a genius and an old soul despite being only 21 years old on the day of his assassination. He achieved a lot more than providing a breakfast program.

He doesn't get as much recognition as Malcom X or MLK Jnr but his message and deeds were equally significant. That's why he was taken out by COINTELPRO.

[villakram]

13 hours ago, maqroll said:

Mueller sentencing memo takes it easy on Flynn for his extensive cooperation in (several lines of total redactions).

 

Or Mueller being the Mr. America cop we've all been told he is, is acting on the evidence he has... can't have it both ways. There's been nothing here, based on the information available in the public domain (and Washington is the leakiest of sieves), regarding collusion for a long long time.

Edited December 5, 2018 by villakram

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, villakram said:

Or Mueller being the Mr. America cop we've all been told he is, is acting on the evidence he has... can't have it both ways. There's been nothing here, based on the information available in the public domain (and Washington is the leakiest of sieves), regarding collusion for a long long time.

Ever seen a leak from inside the Special Counsel's Investigation?

Not sure it's ever happened.

Flynn is right up to his neck in it, he was paid by Cambridge Analitica, He visited the GRU boss that set up the Troll Farm in Russia, he's more than a bag man and for Mueller to recommend no jail says he's made a huge contribution to the evidence of the enquiry. 19 different meetings they've had so far, with someone who has first hand knowledge

Collusion isn't the crime btw

[Keyblade]

12 hours ago, Keyblade said:

These are the people running the country.

Friendly reminder that Giuliani was Trump's original pick for Head of Cyber Security  

[villakram]

3 hours ago, bickster said:

Ever seen a leak from inside the Special Counsel's Investigation?

Not sure it's ever happened.

Flynn is right up to his neck in it, he was paid by Cambridge Analitica, He visited the GRU boss that set up the Troll Farm in Russia, he's more than a bag man and for Mueller to recommend no jail says he's made a huge contribution to the evidence of the enquiry. 19 different meetings they've had so far, with someone who has first hand knowledge

Collusion isn't the crime btw

If you say so.

The entire point of the SC was to investigate if Trump had colluded with Russia, which many trustworthy individuals such as Clapper and Brennan pinky swore was the case. Mueller's case against all those Russians is not exactly progressing smoothly. It's almost like he never thought they'd show up in court.

CA and FB should be investigated and prosecuted in their respective jurisdictions. I don't expect those in power to be all that bothered this side of the water, and Maybot is making it clear she thinks little about the average Brit.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

If you say so.

The entire point of the SC was to investigate if Trump had colluded with Russia, which many trustworthy individuals such as Clapper and Brennan pinky swore was the case. Mueller's case against all those Russians is not exactly progressing smoothly. It's almost like he never thought they'd show up in court.

CA and FB should be investigated and prosecuted in their respective jurisdictions. I don't expect those in power to be all that bothered this side of the water, and Maybot is making it clear she thinks little about the average Brit.

You have a very warped view of what's going on, you are entitled to it but I think you are very wrong

[HanoiVillan]

What are the Republicans in Michigan and Wisconsin up to?

Some background: in 2010, Republicans won big in these states, which meant that they could gerrymander the state lines. In 2018, the Democrats won clear majorities of voters up and down the ticket in these two states, but those majorities translated into wins in the statewide races (both states now have Dem Governors, Attorneys General and Treasurers) but into a minority of state legislative seats. 

Another important point here is that in America, you get these 'lame duck' legislative sessions after an election, but before the new elected officials take office. And in Wisconsin and Michigan, they aren't treating these like 'lame duck' sessions - in fact, they are busy changing every rule they can in order to prevent their Democratic successors from having power:

'A quick rundown of what Wisconsin Republicans proposed:

• Republicans want to cut down the number of early voting days, limiting it to two weeks. This would likely draw legal challenges; the proposal is very similar to a previous law that the courts struck down in 2016 for “stifling votes for partisan gain.”
• There’s a proposal that would allow the Republican legislature to intervene in legal cases and hire their own lawyers, to effectively replace the Democratic attorney general altogether — the constitutionality of which is up for debate.
• [. . ]
• The proposals would limit Evers’s abilities to change the state’s work requirement laws around food stamps and health care, giving the legislature oversight over any federal waivers the state has received. Walker pushed for Medicaid work requirement waivers and waivers to drug test food stamp recipients.
• Republicans want to stop Wisconsin’s incoming attorney general from withdrawing the state from a federal lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act, instead requiring legislative approval to do so.'

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/4/18123784/gop-legislature-wisconsin-michigan-power-grab-lame-duck

Meanwhile, in Michigan, there was a ballot initiative to raise the minimum wage, which passed, because minimum wage rises are very popular. However, the Michigan Republican party forestalled the ballot initiative by voting to raise the minimum wage before the election, but - and this is a real degree of cunning - delaying implementation until the middle of next year, and then using this 'lame duck' session to modify the bill that they passed so that workers won't get the wage rise they thought they were voting for until 2030. 

This is why I will never understand conservatives. Look and marvel at the sheer effort - the norms they are prepared to break! - just to stop companies from having to pay the lowest paid workers a couple more dollars and to prevent the poorest and most desperate people in society from accessing needed social safety net programs. 

[snowychap]

I've just seen the TV news coverage of Bush major's funeral all together with Bush jnr's tears.

Tears from little Bush? **** off. That ****'s only ever crying over himself. rocket polisher.

Edited December 5, 2018 by snowychap

[chrisp65]

don't misunderestimate him

[VILLAMARV]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

I've just seen the TV news coverage of Bush major's funeral all together with Bush jnr's tears.

Tears from little Bush? **** off. That ****'s only ever crying over himself. rocket polisher.

Funeral eh?

I thought the yanks had a penchant for having war criminals dumped at sea somewhere or streamed over Instaperitubeo having spikes shoved places you shouldn't keep your spikes.

You live and learn.

[villakram]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

What are the Republicans in Michigan and Wisconsin up to?

Some background: in 2010, Republicans won big in these states, which meant that they could gerrymander the state lines. In 2018, the Democrats won clear majorities of voters up and down the ticket in these two states, but those majorities translated into wins in the statewide races (both states now have Dem Governors, Attorneys General and Treasurers) but into a minority of state legislative seats. 

Another important point here is that in America, you get these 'lame duck' legislative sessions after an election, but before the new elected officials take office. And in Wisconsin and Michigan, they aren't treating these like 'lame duck' sessions - in fact, they are busy changing every rule they can in order to prevent their Democratic successors from having power:

'A quick rundown of what Wisconsin Republicans proposed:

• Republicans want to cut down the number of early voting days, limiting it to two weeks. This would likely draw legal challenges; the proposal is very similar to a previous law that the courts struck down in 2016 for “stifling votes for partisan gain.”
• There’s a proposal that would allow the Republican legislature to intervene in legal cases and hire their own lawyers, to effectively replace the Democratic attorney general altogether — the constitutionality of which is up for debate.
• [. . ]
• The proposals would limit Evers’s abilities to change the state’s work requirement laws around food stamps and health care, giving the legislature oversight over any federal waivers the state has received. Walker pushed for Medicaid work requirement waivers and waivers to drug test food stamp recipients.
• Republicans want to stop Wisconsin’s incoming attorney general from withdrawing the state from a federal lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act, instead requiring legislative approval to do so.'

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/4/18123784/gop-legislature-wisconsin-michigan-power-grab-lame-duck

Meanwhile, in Michigan, there was a ballot initiative to raise the minimum wage, which passed, because minimum wage rises are very popular. However, the Michigan Republican party forestalled the ballot initiative by voting to raise the minimum wage before the election, but - and this is a real degree of cunning - delaying implementation until the middle of next year, and then using this 'lame duck' session to modify the bill that they passed so that workers won't get the wage rise they thought they were voting for until 2030. 

This is why I will never understand conservatives. Look and marvel at the sheer effort - the norms they are prepared to break! - just to stop companies from having to pay the lowest paid workers a couple more dollars and to prevent the poorest and most desperate people in society from accessing needed social safety net programs. 

Oh, they are much more devious, e.g., one of the things the MI lot slipped in was a new law that would legally require all union members to re-certify/re-apply/re-confirm their membership every 12 months. Better that unions use their time having to make sure they follow the laws to a T, than have them doing anything like organizing or opposing the current social order. 

 

[villakram]

6 hours ago, bickster said:

You have a very warped view of what's going on, you are entitled to it but I think you are very wrong

What is written is truth, all else is unofficial and is only put forth by conspiracy types.

What's warped about it? The entire justification for the SC was the Russian collusion angle pursued by clearly biased parties using information they got from various people in the employ of the US/British and Australian secret services. Spying on ones political opponents using the apparatus of the security state. There's words we have for that.

If this precedent holds. An SC should be appointed to look into every presidency, and separate SCs to probe the House and Senate leaderships. There is that old saying that goes along the lines of have rule book large enough and everyone is guilty of something... that French chap put it so much better, allegedly.

[bickster]

Yep, warped. Firstly the SC was appointed by the GOP not political opponents, secondly

you know part of this is about spying on opponents using the apparatus of another state?

you realise the opposition research done by Steele was initially commissioned by elements within the GOP too?

The only reason you mention collusion is because a Trump keeps using it

Like. I said, warped

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, villakram said:

Oh, they are much more devious, e.g., one of the things the MI lot slipped in was a new law that would legally require all union members to re-certify/re-apply/re-confirm their membership every 12 months. Better that unions use their time having to make sure they follow the laws to a T, than have them doing anything like organizing or opposing the current social order. 

As always, fascinating to see what they're prepared to go to the mattresses over. 

[bickster]

Oh I noticed yesterday that The Trump Organisation have been served with subpoenas for their financial records with regards to financial misdealings to do with the Foreign Emoluments Clause in the US Constitution

Should prove interesting at some point

[peterms]

11 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

What are the Republicans in Michigan and Wisconsin up to?

Some background: in 2010, Republicans won big in these states, which meant that they could gerrymander the state lines. In 2018, the Democrats won clear majorities of voters up and down the ticket in these two states, but those majorities translated into wins in the statewide races (both states now have Dem Governors, Attorneys General and Treasurers) but into a minority of state legislative seats. 

Another important point here is that in America, you get these 'lame duck' legislative sessions after an election, but before the new elected officials take office. And in Wisconsin and Michigan, they aren't treating these like 'lame duck' sessions - in fact, they are busy changing every rule they can in order to prevent their Democratic successors from having power:

'A quick rundown of what Wisconsin Republicans proposed:

• Republicans want to cut down the number of early voting days, limiting it to two weeks. This would likely draw legal challenges; the proposal is very similar to a previous law that the courts struck down in 2016 for “stifling votes for partisan gain.”
• There’s a proposal that would allow the Republican legislature to intervene in legal cases and hire their own lawyers, to effectively replace the Democratic attorney general altogether — the constitutionality of which is up for debate.
• [. . ]
• The proposals would limit Evers’s abilities to change the state’s work requirement laws around food stamps and health care, giving the legislature oversight over any federal waivers the state has received. Walker pushed for Medicaid work requirement waivers and waivers to drug test food stamp recipients.
• Republicans want to stop Wisconsin’s incoming attorney general from withdrawing the state from a federal lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act, instead requiring legislative approval to do so.'

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/4/18123784/gop-legislature-wisconsin-michigan-power-grab-lame-duck

Meanwhile, in Michigan, there was a ballot initiative to raise the minimum wage, which passed, because minimum wage rises are very popular. However, the Michigan Republican party forestalled the ballot initiative by voting to raise the minimum wage before the election, but - and this is a real degree of cunning - delaying implementation until the middle of next year, and then using this 'lame duck' session to modify the bill that they passed so that workers won't get the wage rise they thought they were voting for until 2030. 

This is why I will never understand conservatives. Look and marvel at the sheer effort - the norms they are prepared to break! - just to stop companies from having to pay the lowest paid workers a couple more dollars and to prevent the poorest and most desperate people in society from accessing needed social safety net programs. 

It's astonishing how brazen they are, and how flagrant is the contradiction between their behaviour and their incessant loud proclamation of the US as the great democratic beacon of the world. 

It also makes me wonder if they understand the danger of what they are doing, and the likelihood of breakdown of trust and erosion of faith in democratic systems (as well as the certainty of similar measures in reprisal).

Quote

An important point to make about both constitutions and laws in a democracy is that they both require what is sometimes called “Losers Consent”. In other words, citizens, and political parties agree to ‘play by the rules’ and if they lose accept the right of the winners to pass laws or, in the case of constitutions, alter them. But “Losers Consent” in democracies is also based on the basic principle that at some point in the future – sometimes the fairly near future – there will be opportunities for the losers to become the winners. Without that democracy would rapidly cease to exist.

(From here).

[A'Villan]

1 hour ago, peterms said:

It's astonishing how brazen they are, and how flagrant is the contradiction between their behaviour and their incessant loud proclamation of the US as the great democratic beacon of the world. 

It also makes me wonder if they understand the danger of what they are doing, and the likelihood of breakdown of trust and erosion of faith in democratic systems (as well as the certainty of similar measures in reprisal).

(From here).

Capitalism and democracy are not synonymous.

[mjmooney]

38 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Capitalism and democracy are not synonymous.

Indeed. They are - if not actually completely incompatible - very difficult to reconcile.