U.S. Politics

[snowychap]

6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Ok let me rephrase it all. What are they people trying to achieve by protesting against Trump?

I think you should direct the question to those people protesting who would appear to be the people best placed to answer your question.

I take it this means that you don't intend to answer my question?

[StefanAVFC]

5 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

 Listen to the millions that he has given a new hope too after years of decline under Obama. 

This is absolutely fantastic.

It's just objectively wrong if you look at any economic figures, and you have the gall to call anyone else a sheep?

[ml1dch]

5 hours ago, MickeyC_UTV said:

Ignorance may come into protests e.g tony robinson/GOSH but not in this case. 

Poor Tony, he was doing his best.

[ml1dch]

6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Of course not. 

Cant hate Trump because of left wing media propaganda.  

Where should we go for honest, unbiased reporting?

(he asked with with a rising sense of dread...)

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

1 hour ago, il_serpente said:

Speaking from my own experience in the past, I came home thinking, among other things:

1.  Despite the incredible concentration of power in the hands of ruling elite, they've been reminded that they can't entirely discount the opinions of the people without at least some repercussions.

2.  People who feel the same as me but fear they are alone and are afraid to speak out have been reassured that there are others on their side.

I’m really trying but I still don’t get it. Surely people who are anti Trump can’t argue that their views are not being represented in the U.K. parliament, US congress or in the media. Criticism of him is everywhere you turn. So why would people protesting yesterday or this weekend either feel that their opinion is being discounted or need reassurance they are not alone? 

[terrytini]

If only all these people at the Berlin Wall and across Eastern Europe had realised marching and protesting was so pointless. If only Emily Pankhurst had realised waving a placard was a waste of time.

If only the Tolpuddle martyrs had known that long walk was about as useful as Gandhi’s walk to the sea, or Rosa Parks sitting in the wrong seat.

If only Martin Luther King had had the sense to tell all those people marching in Washington that firstly they were hypocrites because they hadn’t marched about other things, secondly they had no real merit because millions of other people didn’t join in, and thirdly that marching never achieved anything.

All these silly “scum” causing all these problems in the world....if only they’d not bothered, or listened to those who sneered at them.

Good grief, Ive read some stuff on here that I’ve disagreed with, sometimes passionately, but I’ve never read anything that has managed to simultaneously excel in ignorance of facts, history, protest, and politics, whilst at the same time displaying such deplorable and arrogant sentiments towards others.

Luckily, such sentiments only strengthen the resolve of others to do, in whatever way they can, all manner of things to expose and weaken them.

[VILLAMARV]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Ok let me rephrase it all. What are they people trying to achieve by protesting against Trump?

That's a good question.

It's not an effective re-phrasing of what you've written so far in fairness

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

What’s all that got to do with Trump? Previous US governments are far more guilty of those crimes then the current administration yet I never saw such protests againsts Obama for example. I bet warmonger Hilary Clinton would have been welcomed with open arms too.

Everything. He is POTUS. You think all that stopped the day he got to power? You think he now stands for something other than US empire building?

You are literally quoting Piers Morgan (in that clip a few pages back) with the Obama bit. Your assumption on HRC is probably true but in both cases irrelevant to your point imo.

Quote

These people aren’t protesting against US policies. That would actually be justified in many ways. They are protesting because of their hatred for one man. That’s what is making a whole mockery of protests in general. It’s lost all credibility now. Scumbags.

You're making a lot of assumptions there and forming an opinion on them.Worst of all Vive is you are literally claiming to know what the thought process of some people you saw in a crowd on the telly is. Think about that one.

[NurembergVillan]

My gast is well and truly flabbered.

[snowychap]

31 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

Your assumption on HRC is probably true

Maybe, maybe not.

I question the accuracy of the claim that there wouldn't have been a significant amount of anti-Clinton feeling if she had become President. And that's not just amongst those who count themselves as supporters of Trump.

Would it have manifested itself in to protests? I don't know. Possibly not. That shouldn't be read as someone being 'welcomed with open arms', though.

Edited July 14, 2018 by snowychap

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

16 minutes ago, terrytini said:

If only all these people at the Berlin Wall and across Eastern Europe had realised marching and protesting was so pointless. If only Emily Pankhurst had realised waving a placard was a waste of time.

If only the Tolpuddle martyrs had known that long walk was about as useful as Gandhi’s walk to the sea, or Rosa Parks sitting in the wrong seat.

If only Martin Luther King had had the sense to tell all those people marching in Washington that firstly they were hypocrites because they hadn’t marched about other things, secondly they had no real merit because millions of other people didn’t join in, and thirdly that marching never achieved anything.

All these silly “scum” causing all these problems in the world....if only they’d not bothered, or listened to those who sneered at them.

Good grief, Ive read some stuff on here that I’ve disagreed with, sometimes passionately, but I’ve never read anything that has managed to simultaneously excel in ignorance of facts, history, protest, and politics, whilst at the same time displaying such deplorable and arrogant sentiments towards others.

Luckily, such sentiments only strengthen the resolve of others to do, in whatever way they can, all manner of things to expose and weaken them.

In all the examples you’ve given the protesters proposed a change to the system. Today’s protests (anti Trump, anti Brexit etc) do seem to be more about the product of a system as opposed to the changing the system itself...which to some, myself included, does seem somewhat pointless.

If people were out on the streets demanding referendums were outlawed as a way determining government policy or proposing an alternative to the electoral college system (although why anyone would want to protest that in the UK I’m not sure) then maybe it would make more sense. 

[a m ole]

36 minutes ago, terrytini said:

If only all these people at the Berlin Wall and across Eastern Europe had realised marching and protesting was so pointless. If only Emily Pankhurst had realised waving a placard was a waste of time.

If only the Tolpuddle martyrs had known that long walk was about as useful as Gandhi’s walk to the sea, or Rosa Parks sitting in the wrong seat.

If only Martin Luther King had had the sense to tell all those people marching in Washington that firstly they were hypocrites because they hadn’t marched about other things, secondly they had no real merit because millions of other people didn’t join in, and thirdly that marching never achieved anything.

All these silly “scum” causing all these problems in the world....if only they’d not bothered, or listened to those who sneered at them.

Good grief, Ive read some stuff on here that I’ve disagreed with, sometimes passionately, but I’ve never read anything that has managed to simultaneously excel in ignorance of facts, history, protest, and politics, whilst at the same time displaying such deplorable and arrogant sentiments towards others.

Luckily, such sentiments only strengthen the resolve of others to do, in whatever way they can, all manner of things to expose and weaken them.

Nah they’re just sheeple mate, for using the only power they have to try to make a difference. Scummy sheeple.

[a m ole]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Ok let me rephrase it all. What are they people trying to achieve by protesting against Trump?

Is it dawning on you now why only a handful of those who oppose him went to protest?

[VILLAMARV]

9 hours ago, maqroll said:

teresa may is a vixen

Well, at least we know Maqroll will be first in line for the robot lady doll thingamys

Edited July 14, 2018 by VILLAMARV

[terrytini]

8 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

In all the examples you’ve given the protesters proposed a change to the system. Today’s protests (anti Trump, anti Brexit etc) do seem to be more about the product of a system as opposed to the changing the system itself...which to some, myself included, does seem somewhat pointless.

If people were out on the streets demanding referendums were outlawed as a way determining government policy or proposing an alternative to the electoral college system (although why anyone would want to protest that in the UK I’m not sure) then maybe it would make more sense. 

Your view is reasonably expressed (in my humble opinion) unlike those I’m referring to.

Nevertheless....

I don’t share your view, and without having a huge debate on it I’d simply say I see no difference, ultimately, in protesting about desired ‘change to a system’ and protesting about policies that already exist within a system, or about individuals responsible for them. I’m not at all convinced there is any practical difference between the two anyway.

I don’t really see a difference between, for example, a guy in East Berlin marching ( in a simplistic example) because he doesn’t want the Wall that’s BEEN built, and a guy marching because he doesn’t want the guy that WILL build one. Or a woman marching in protest  ( again, simplifying the cause) at the inability to vote, and one marching to protest at a President who may create an inability to legally have an abortion.

Semantics in my view. And certainly nothing to back up the comments about the relevance, or appropriateness, of protesting, in the Posts I was referring to.

 

[HanoiVillan]

Here's something that seems worthy of protesting:

 

[VILLAMARV]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Cant hate Trump because of left wing media propaganda.

I actually agree with this 100%

Here's my question to you Vive - What are the things it would be ok to hate him for?

With me it was mainly his usurpation of the Rule of Law in the UK linked to the harassment of the residents around his Scottish golf course that REALLY sealed the deal on him for me.

If we strip away all the veneer of public perception, character assassination etc etc and focus on the substance that underlies him as an individual then long, long before he entered politics it was plain to see that this is not a man of the people.

There is much to hate about the "left-wing media"'s response to him seizing power. None of which makes the fault lie at the feet of the protesters though. There is much to hate about the group-think responses in the media, in here, in the street, down the pub etc at times. I wonder though if your response would change if there had been a public protest against Modi and someone on VT was labeling the people there as "riotous scum", "scumbags" and "sheep" ?

 

[VILLAMARV]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

Maybe, maybe not.

I question the accuracy of the claim that there wouldn't have been a significant amount of anti-Clinton feeling if she had become President. And that's not just amongst those who count themselves as supporters of Trump.

Would it have manifested itself in to protests? I don't know. Possibly not. That shouldn't be read as someone being 'welcomed with open arms', though.

I honestly thought that was covered by the 'probably' tbh

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Here's something that seems worthy of protesting:

 

I think they mean jailed right wing activist and convicted fraudster Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.

[Chindie]

Who openly pleaded guilty.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

I actually agree with this 100%

Here's my question to you Vive - What are the things it would be ok to hate him for?

With me it was mainly his usurpation of the Rule of Law in the UK linked to the harassment of the residents around his Scottish golf course that REALLY sealed the deal on him for me.

If we strip away all the veneer of public perception, character assassination etc etc and focus on the substance that underlies him as an individual then long, long before he entered politics it was plain to see that this is not a man of the people.

There is much to hate about the "left-wing media"'s response to him seizing power. None of which makes the fault lie at the feet of the protesters though. There is much to hate about the group-think responses in the media, in here, in the street, down the pub etc at times. I wonder though if your response would change if there had been a public protest against Modi and someone on VT was labeling the people there as "riotous scum", "scumbags" and "sheep" ?

 

Yes had a bit to drink yesterday. Didn’t really mean half of what I said. Apologies if offended anyone. 

As many have said people are free to protest about whatever they want, that is what’s great about this country. The media just gave this protest a lot more attention. 

Regarding a protest against someone like Modi. I do feel such a protest would have more substance considering the massacre of people he was involved in. As vile as a person Trump may be. I’m not sure he has reached those levels yet.