CrackpotForeigner Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The finance minister were definitely stupid. What do you base this on? He's a Marxist with completely different views and priorities to the EU negotiators. Do you know of actual "stupid" things he's said or done, or are you just buying into the EU/German/banker line because it's the easiest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) So germany invaded greece today without firing a bullet .......slick move adolf .....err I mean merkel Classic pincer movement Edited July 13, 2015 by Meath_Villan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The finance minister were definitely stupid. What do you base this on? He's a Marxist with completely different views and priorities to the EU negotiators. Do you know of actual "stupid" things he's said or done, or are you just buying into the EU/German/banker line because it's the easiest? Call the other negotiating part terrorists is stupid. How he talked about the referendum. His views being different or not you have to realist. The referendum to me was not very well thought through. They asked a question about two complex documents that amounted to: Would you like to feel less financial pain? The answer was obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The finance minister were definitely stupid. What do you base this on? He's a Marxist with completely different views and priorities to the EU negotiators. Do you know of actual "stupid" things he's said or done, or are you just buying into the EU/German/banker line because it's the easiest? Call the other negotiating part terrorists is stupid. How he talked about the referendum. His views being different or not you have to realist. The referendum to me was not very well thought through. They asked a question about two complex documents that amounted to: Would you like to feel less financial pain? The answer was obvious. I think you can make a case for calling them terrorists in the context he used it in. Obviously he feels the Greeks are being held to ransom by people threatening financial meltdown if Greece doesn't to what they say. Calling them terrorists might be emotive language, but it's not all that far-fetched imo. On the referendum question, we don't know if he was involved in wording it, and in any case I don't really agree that it can be boiled down to "would you like to feel less financial pain?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockingbird_franklin Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) So germany invaded greece today without firing a bullet .......slick move adolf .....err I mean merkel Classic pincer movement I refer you to Mr John Adams who i believe i quoted earlier, there are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation, one is the sword the other is by debt. It seems the sword is now reserved for use on nations made up of brown people, Edited July 15, 2015 by mockingbird_franklin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 So germany invaded greece today without firing a bullet .......slick move adolf .....err I mean merkel Classic pincer movement I refer you to Mr John Adams who i believe i quoted earlier, there are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation, one is the sword the other is by debt. It seems the sword is now reserved for use on nations made up of brown people, Who are the enslaved and what do you mean by a nation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) So germany invaded greece today without firing a bullet .......slick move adolf .....err I mean merkel Classic pincer movement I refer you to Mr John Adams who i believe i quoted earlier, there are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation, one is the sword the other is by debt. It seems the sword is now reserved for use on nations made up of brown people, Who are the enslaved and what do you mean by a nation? The 99% and the societies in which they reside - at a guess. Or as a certain Mr Rothschild put it, "give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws". Hopefully the Greek Parliament will tonight deliver a "this is Sparta!" moment, which is even more likely after the latest from the IMF. Edited July 15, 2015 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockingbird_franklin Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 So germany invaded greece today without firing a bullet .......slick move adolf .....err I mean merkel Classic pincer movement I refer you to Mr John Adams who i believe i quoted earlier, there are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation, one is the sword the other is by debt. It seems the sword is now reserved for use on nations made up of brown people Who are the enslaved and what do you mean by a nation? That's a very good rhetorical question that everyone should ask themselves,then a good long hard bit of philosophical thinking might help lead to the answer, getting away from the stereotypical in chains and whipped black person implanted into the psyche can be hard to do though, it's the sort of question you really have to realise the answer for yourself, however uncomfortable the answer might be, As for a nation i guess I quite like the Benedict Anderson's definition of an 'imagined community' which I believe accurately describes most modern states or countries in those two words. But here i guess Jughashvili's definition is more apt, though not totally at odds with Anderson's which is "a historically constituted community of people;" "a nation is not a casual or ephemeral conglomeration but a stable community of people"; "a nation is formed only as a result of lengthy and systematic intercouse as a result of people living together generation after generation"; or, in its entirety: "a nation is a historically constituted, stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, and psychological make-up manifested in a common culture" *thanks to wikipidea for providing an easy refreshment of my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 That's the modern definition of the term though, one suspects "nation" meant something subtly different back in the day (the term appears in the King James Bible for instance). Damn it I came here to distract myself from uni by reading shitty transfer rumours, screw you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The Economist has an interesting take on British enthusiasm for blaming the Germans. The link: http://tinyurl.com/nqd3w9n The quote: But if I were a German, I would find it hard to be lectured about communal togetherness by Britain, a country which stands aloof from all federalising measures and might be leaving the EU in 2017. Germany contributes €29 billion to the EU budget (and €16 billion net); the UK complains bitterly about its net €11 billion payment. The German net contribution to the budget is twice that of France, although their GDP per head numbers are virtually identical. If it is such a good deal to lend money to the Greek government without conditions, why doesn't Britain do so? The German government is not in that much better a financial position than the UK; its gross debt-to-GDP ratio is 82% as opposed to Britain's 90%. We could borrow money at our 1.4% rate (on 10-year gilts) and lend the money to Greece at 2% and make a profit (we did something similar for Ireland). Of course, it's fantasy; any party that proposed such an idea would be slaughtered in the polls. Why waste money on the Greeks, the papers would say, when we need to spend it at home? But when the Germans think along similar lines, they are monsters. Humbug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. OK we don't contribute as much as others or loan out so much money to others. But then, we've said all along it's a bad project with potentially bad consequences. Germany, on the other hand, have been a driving force in getting this club going, pretending not to notice that some people joining the club had blatantly lied on the application form. The drive for membership of their club was more important than the quality of the applicants. If I was setting up a private members drinking club, in the short term allowing known piss heads to join and run up a tab might look clever. But there has to be a reckoning day. Do you blame the drunk when a few years in to 'cheap' booze on the slate they mention they can't pay? Now, a club we didn't want to join as it looked like trouble, is in serious trouble. I think we've been remarkably restrained on the smug front. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The Economist has been a consistent cheerleader for the EU and always claimed that the Euro was the best thing since sliced bread - and that not joining would be terrible for the UK economy. Given the fact that the economic analysis of 'The Economist' was so unerringly awful it's not surprising they are quite bitter now, as reality dawns. As a publication it perfectly reflects the failure of UK Establishment groupthink over several decades. You'd get more value for money buying a jazz mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Those poor Greek people they are going to suffer big time. Expect a load of them to flood to other European Countries. Be hilarous if lots of them moved to germany and started taking their jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. OK we don't contribute as much as others or loan out so much money to others. But then, we've said all along it's a bad project with potentially bad consequences. Germany, on the other hand, have been a driving force in getting this club going, pretending not to notice that some people joining the club had blatantly lied on the application form. The drive for membership of their club was more important than the quality of the applicants. If I was setting up a private members drinking club, in the short term allowing known piss heads to join and run up a tab might look clever. But there has to be a reckoning day. Do you blame the drunk when a few years in to 'cheap' booze on the slate they mention they can't pay? Now, a club we didn't want to join as it looked like trouble, is in serious trouble. I think we've been remarkably restrained on the smug front. I suppose I can't help noticing how much the Greeks gained by joining the EMU, which was key to helping them to triple their GDP per capita from just over $10k in 2000, to just over $30k in 2007. It has since fallen back to $20k but even after the their reforms, they will still be a lot better off than they were 15 years ago, or at least no worse off. The question is whether the Germans should take credit for this, being that throughout an even longer period of sustained economic growth in the UK, the government failed to achieve anything like it in the UK's very own economic black-spots. The British attitude to Greece is exactly the same as it continues to show to its own regions, and they consider any attempt to sort out Scotland, the North East, or Wales, would be as idiotic as the Germans attempting to make the Greeks wealthier. I am not sure the British should feel smug about this but they can certainly claim to be consistent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Looks like Tspiras is going to shake the troublesome lefties and take the Blair route to the middle. They'll win snap elections comfortably with a reformed party. Edit: Edited August 20, 2015 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Big victory against the far right 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, maqroll said: Big victory against the far right Good. Countries is in such a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 On 08/10/2020 at 05:02, Demitri_C said: Good. Countries is in such a mess I've been reading a fair bit about it. It's not only my family's country of origin, but the birthplace of democracy and home to many great minds and philosophies. I recall a forum member giving you poo for spending however long living in a foreign country and never learning the language as a joke. My Yiayia is currently 88 and still can't speak English, I don't know how many decades she's been in Australia. That's a tough life to live. I remember my Yiayia telling me about the Nazi occupation, Mum translating for her, it wasn't in the words but her expression and manner when trying to explain. That occupation still has relevance today, but I won't go there in this post. It is a sad state of affairs over there right now. Reportedly at least over a third of people living below the poverty line, and many are unemployed, a considerable percentage. What's heartbreaking is that Greece lost its sovereignty essentially. It's too early in the morning for me to go in to detail. I also fear what I have to say might not be so well received by some, and again too early and I'm not interested in explaining myself on this subject. Beautiful country, at least her people still have the scenery, if not the ownership of land and assets. From the Ionian sea to Egypt and then all the way to India once upon a time. Her history speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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