timbaughan Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Nothing says Friday night like Holocaust pictures! No seriously haven't clicked the link yet, not sure I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Shocking pics! Although just for the sake of historical accuracy the Yanks didn't discover or liberate any of the death camps. Royal Army scholars seem to hold a contrary view to yours Dachau liberation photos Click So much for your "accuracy", eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Quite unbelieveble that humans can do that to other humans. I just can't get my head around that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Royal Army scholars seem to hold a contrary view to yours Dachau liberation photos Click So much for your "accuracy", eh? Dachau was a concentration camp.. not a death camp. It has long since been acknowledged that there were no 'death camps' (places deliberately established for the extermination of enemies of the Nazi state) on German soil. The six remaining places recognised as death camps; Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, Majdanek and Chełmno, are all in modern day Poland and were all liberated by the Red Army. But look I'm not here to get all 'holocaust denier' on everyone or dent any American egos..I'm as distressed by the photos as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Quite unbelieveble that humans can do that to other humans. I just can't get my head around that fact. There's been plenty of cases of the most shocking and unspeakable brutality across cultures over many thousands of years. I'm afraid it's all too believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Dachau was a concentration camp.. not a death camp. It has long since been acknowledged that there were no 'death camps' (places deliberately established for the extermination of enemies of the Nazi state) on German soil. The six remaining places recognised as death camps; Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, Majdanek and Chełmno, are all in modern day Poland and were all liberated by the Red Army. But look I'm not here to get all 'holocaust denier' on everyone or dent any American egos..I'm as distressed by the photos as anyone else. you forgot Jasenovac http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 You mean nationalistic racists right ? There is nothing wrong with hating/fearing Islam or any other of the bullshit religions that people allign themselves to . I mean Islamophobes. Most of them seem to be nationalistic racists, but they are trying to attract people who wouldn't normally be part of the fascist right, by playing on fear and hatred of what is different. There's plenty wrong with hatring and fearing another group of people, based on religion, skin colour or ethnicity. This thread shows one of the more dramatic conclusions it can lead to, but there's plenty of extremely bad things based on this concept of a group of people who are somehow less deserving of human rights, which stop short of industrialised mass murder, but which are also unacceptable to anyone who believes in human rights and freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I mean Islamophobes. Most of them seem to be nationalistic racists, but they are trying to attract people who wouldn't normally be part of the fascist right, by playing on fear and hatred of what is different. There's plenty wrong with hatring and fearing another group of people, based on religion, skin colour or ethnicity. This thread shows one of the more dramatic conclusions it can lead to, but there's plenty of extremely bad things based on this concept of a group of people who are somehow less deserving of human rights, which stop short of industrialised mass murder, but which are also unacceptable to anyone who believes in human rights and freedom. I don't hate muslims at all, or any other people who belong to a religious group,,,, I do hate the actual religion itself mind you . I am an islamaphobe but not a muslimaphobe . I don't like the negative connotations that the word islamophobe evokes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Dachau was a concentration camp.. not a death camp. It has long since been acknowledged that there were no 'death camps' (places deliberately established for the extermination of enemies of the Nazi state) on German soil. The six remaining places recognised as death camps; Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, Majdanek and Chełmno, are all in modern day Poland and were all liberated by the Red Army. But look I'm not here to get all 'holocaust denier' on everyone or dent any American egos..I'm as distressed by the photos as anyone else. Well over one million people died inside German concentration camps, most of which were liberated by British and American forces. Were they not "Death Camps" as well? I'd say they were. One million lost souls would probably agree with me, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 You mean nationalistic racists right ? There is nothing wrong with hating/fearing Islam or any other of the bullshit religions that people allign themselves to . Imo, there is nothing morally wrong with criticising Islam. There is definitely something wrong with hurling abuse at them (again, criticising their beliefs, not their character), and chasing them out of the country* or even, god forbid, killing them. * Unless they are genuine security threats, but that's always very hard to ascertain. Tbh, the photos didn't distress me as much as I thought they would. And I get disturbed easily. Also - Sometimes I don't like how little attention Japanese war crimes get in the West in comparison to the Holocaust. Make no mistake, the Japs (at that time) were just as egregious. Not to mention the countless other instances in history in which mass killing and cruel punishment were used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The Japanese still deny the rape of Nanking ever happened I've read a few books on the subject but of course they are mainly from the Chinese point of view ... The books talk about japanese soldiers throwing babies in the air and bayoneting them ... There is a part of you that hopes this is just an embellishment of events and that mankind isn't capable of such acts ... However we also know that indeed they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 There is a Christian Bale film out about the 37 invasion of China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 ... The books talk about japanese soldiers throwing babies in the air and bayoneting them ... That thought disturbed me more than any of the pics in this thread . I really really hope that never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 That thought disturbed me more than any of the pics in this thread . I really really hope that never happened. The Khmer Rouge used to do that as well. Using sharpened bamboo canes as opposed to bayonets :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 And the 'mericans weren't terribly kind to baby natives, for that matter. Ads is right, though. The Holocaust was industrialised slaughter. Never seen before, or since. You can't really compare what happened then to what is going/has gone on in the world. Genocide is something that haunts many countries/cultures, and it is downright barbaric and completely baffling that people are capable of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I did the killing fields and the school come prison on my birthday one year ... not the most fun thing I've ever done on a birthday , but certainly one of the more enlightening The strange thing with the KR is none of then stood trial and a lot of the leaders are still living a normal life in Cambodia with no fear of reprisals !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Read about the Napking massacre quite possibly the most disturbing act of brutality ever known. Worst thing I read was that a soldier raping a struggling pregnant woman slit her belly open tossed the baby out and carried on. Reading it was bad enough, hope to god there aren't any images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 It's not exactly light viewing. The Rape of Nanking was every bit as evil as the Holocaust, albeit on a smaller scale. There has been some truly evil shit in history too, we have just forgotten about a lot of it because we are so far removed from it. How many people died because of Genghis Khan? Historians cant even round the figure to the nearest ten million. He raped, sorry, "married" so many women that they say about 8% of the population of Asia today is directly descended from him. It's almost impressive if you look at the numbers, sadly a lot of people had to suffer massively to get to those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The strange thing with the KR is none of then stood trial and a lot of the leaders are still living a normal life in Cambodia with no fear of reprisals !! Following a well-trodden road there. One example concerning the Nazis: During the Nuremberg trials, several of the Nazi doctors and scientists who were being tried for their human experiments claimed that the inspiration for their studies had come from studies that they had seen performed in the United States.[10][47] In 1945, as part of Operation Paperclip, the United States government recruited 1,600 Nazi scientists, many of whom had performed human experimentation in Nazi concentration camps. The scientists were offered immunity from any war crimes they had committed during the course of their work for the Nazi government, in return for doing similar research for the United States government. Many of the Nazi scientists continued their human experimentation when they arrived in the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 comparison talk is always a slippery slope but at the same point, I always think the greater risk is trying to lock away the holocaust permanently into an event that was somehow an aberation in time and space. Sadly it is just one part of humanity. A gross tragedy of the highest order for sure, but it should never be isolated from the 'narrative' of humanity. It gave rise to the idea that 'everything is possible' and influenced sadistic dictatorships across the world, from the the use of concentration camps to the horror of torture and when you look at the gulag's, dr ewen cameron and the ciafunded electroshock torture in the 50's the bloody revolutions in south america easter europe, asia, algeria and even may I say the attitude to torture now - I'm looking at Guantanamo here and it's influences lie in the evil of the concentrationary regime and the holocaust. And on a theoretical point, were the technologies of death available to prrevious regimes, they would have been used then, but it was a tragic confluence of events of the rise of nation-building, first world war, economic depression and ideogical fervour that combined with a willing people. And as for "only" concentrationay camps not being death camps ( and being careful at any hierachising of suffering here ) I recommend reading Robert Antelme's The Human Race ( l'espece humaine) or Primo Levi's If This is Man ( amongst others ) for recording the way the whole system was thoroughly ndesigned to bring about death in the most agonising way, from heavy labour to the dehumanising conditions that sought to make the detainees themselves view themselves as less than human, than death on legs. It is one of the powerful conlusions evoked by Antelme that he insists upon the fragile 'irreducibility' of mankind in the camps. However much the Nazi's tried the resistance of those who lived was in revealing the ultimate failure of the regime to seperate the commanders from the prisoners as different species. It is a remarkable read. Another shocking film, which can only be recommended with the caution of distressing imagery is Night and Fog. It's on youtube - a 30 min French film with english subtitles that flicks between shots on location ( in 1950s) with images of photographs taken at liberation - and it includes a clandestine photo taken by a member of the sonderkommando those sadly dealt the responsibility of 'working' with the gas chambers / ovens. It is so depressing, but so many of the individual factors that allowed this evil to take place are thoroughly human ones. That thought disturbed me more than any of the pics in this thread . I really really hope that never happened. Going off the testimonies of films like 'Come and See' and 'A Woman in Berlin' it is sadly more than possible. In some cases, German soldiers retreating from Russian villages would pick a child up by it's legs swinging it round and smacking it's head against a wall to kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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