dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 If they wanted to trace you, if they really really wanted to, they could. Networks are incredibly complex, but your IP is ALWAYS on show, somewhere. Truth is, they don't. They're too busy chasing the source. Except there are services which make it impossible for them to track you. VPNs that don't log, TOR, just two of many options to avoid being traced. Can they not get a court order for said VPN company to release records? Saying that surely VPN company's that naturally don't record IP's will surely be made illegal as you could use one to do any naughty thing you like on the Internet? Exactly. As I said, your IP is always being broadcast. If they wanted you they'd find you. They don't necessarily mean to be looking for you personally, but if the shoe fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 If they wanted to trace you, if they really really wanted to, they could. Networks are incredibly complex, but your IP is ALWAYS on show, somewhere. Truth is, they don't. They're too busy chasing the source. Except there are services which make it impossible for them to track you. VPNs that don't log, TOR, just two of many options to avoid being traced. Can they not get a court order for said VPN company to release records? Saying that surely VPN company's that naturally don't record IP's will surely be made illegal as you could use one to do any naughty thing you like on the Internet? Record that don't exist? Sure. You can't make it illegal to not track people. It's like making it illegal for a car to do over 70 in the UK as that's the maximum legal limit. Just because something can be used to break the law it doesn't mean you can legislate so it can't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 With probable cause they could subpoena the records. They could make said VPN host record IP addresses and use them as evidence in criminal cases. All within the current laws of the land. As I said, if they really really wanted to. They don't. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 If they wanted to trace you, if they really really wanted to, they could. Networks are incredibly complex, but your IP is ALWAYS on show, somewhere.Truth is, they don't. They're too busy chasing the source. Except there are services which make it impossible for them to track you. VPNs that don't log, TOR, just two of many options to avoid being traced.Can they not get a court order for said VPN company to release records?Saying that surely VPN company's that naturally don't record IP's will surely be made illegal as you could use one to do any naughty thing you like on the Internet? Record that don't exist? Sure. You can't make it illegal to not track people. It's like making it illegal for a car to do over 70 in the UK as that's the maximum legal limit. Just because something can be used to break the law it doesn't mean you can legislate so it can't be.You believe it when VPN's say they dont record all their data, yeah of course.I'm sure when all the bad people from sex pests to possible terrorists are using VPN's to hide their dastardly deeds that it will be made law that VPN's have to release their records for something.Otherwise almost anything could be planned on the internet in complete privacy, i feel safe already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 If they wanted to trace you, if they really really wanted to, they could. Networks are incredibly complex, but your IP is ALWAYS on show, somewhere. Truth is, they don't. They're too busy chasing the source. Except there are services which make it impossible for them to track you. VPNs that don't log, TOR, just two of many options to avoid being traced. Can they not get a court order for said VPN company to release records? Saying that surely VPN company's that naturally don't record IP's will surely be made illegal as you could use one to do any naughty thing you like on the Internet? Record that don't exist? Sure. You can't make it illegal to not track people. It's like making it illegal for a car to do over 70 in the UK as that's the maximum legal limit. Just because something can be used to break the law it doesn't mean you can legislate so it can't be. You believe it when VPN's say they dont record all their data, yeah of course. I'm sure when all the bad people from sex pests to possible terrorists are using VPN's to hide their dastardly deeds that it will be made law that VPN's have to release their records for something. Otherwise almost anything could be planned on the internet in complete privacy, i feel safe already! TOR is designed specifically to be completely anonymous. Good luck finding out anything about who's using TOR other than what exit node they're connected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 With probable cause they could subpoena the records. They could make said VPN host record IP addresses and use them as evidence in criminal cases. All within the current laws of the land. As I said, if they really really wanted to. They don't. Why is that? They already do in Britain, data retention laws force VPN providers to keep some data logged, fortunately it's pointless. The law isn't going to change in every country. Having legislation to make it difficult to run an anonymous VPN service in the UK alone accomplishes nothing. Otherwise almost anything could be planned on the internet in complete privacy, i feel safe already! As has been the case for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted March 24, 2013 Author Administrator Share Posted March 24, 2013 They already do in Britain, data retention laws force VPN providers to keep some data logged, fortunately it's pointless. The law isn't going to change in every country. Having legislation to make it difficult to run an anonymous VPN service in the UK alone accomplishes nothing. They don't. Only larger providers (based on subscriber base) are required to log anything, let alone keep it. The costs of doing this are borne by the government and it is not cost effective to do this for small providers. Otherwise almost anything could be planned on the internet in complete privacy, i feel safe already! As has been the case for many years. Yes, the same as it can be planned over the postal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 If they wanted to trace you, if they really really wanted to, they could. Networks are incredibly complex, but your IP is ALWAYS on show, somewhere. Truth is, they don't. They're too busy chasing the source. Except there are services which make it impossible for them to track you. VPNs that don't log, TOR, just two of many options to avoid being traced. Can they not get a court order for said VPN company to release records? Saying that surely VPN company's that naturally don't record IP's will surely be made illegal as you could use one to do any naughty thing you like on the Internet? Record that don't exist? Sure. You can't make it illegal to not track people. It's like making it illegal for a car to do over 70 in the UK as that's the maximum legal limit. Just because something can be used to break the law it doesn't mean you can legislate so it can't be. You believe it when VPN's say they dont record all their data, yeah of course. I'm sure when all the bad people from sex pests to possible terrorists are using VPN's to hide their dastardly deeds that it will be made law that VPN's have to release their records for something. Otherwise almost anything could be planned on the internet in complete privacy, i feel safe already! TOR is designed specifically to be completely anonymous. Good luck finding out anything about who's using TOR other than what exit node they're connected to. Brilliant, terrorists around the world are using this right now and there is nothing various govement a can do about it! You seem to know everything, I reckon there are people that work for governments that know more than you; god help us if they dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted March 24, 2013 Author Administrator Share Posted March 24, 2013 Brilliant, terrorists around the world are using this right now and there is nothing various govement a can do about it! You seem to know everything, I reckon there are people that work for governments that know more than you; god help us if they dont. I'm not sure why you are making this personal. Terrorists can use any network to organise anything even the postal service or telephones. They can set up their own VPN networks. They can use cryptography or steganography and hide their messages in plain sight. Intelligence gathering is not about snooping communications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 If they wanted to trace you, if they really really wanted to, they could. Networks are incredibly complex, but your IP is ALWAYS on show, somewhere. Truth is, they don't. They're too busy chasing the source. Except there are services which make it impossible for them to track you. VPNs that don't log, TOR, just two of many options to avoid being traced. Can they not get a court order for said VPN company to release records? Saying that surely VPN company's that naturally don't record IP's will surely be made illegal as you could use one to do any naughty thing you like on the Internet? Record that don't exist? Sure. You can't make it illegal to not track people. It's like making it illegal for a car to do over 70 in the UK as that's the maximum legal limit. Just because something can be used to break the law it doesn't mean you can legislate so it can't be. You believe it when VPN's say they dont record all their data, yeah of course. I'm sure when all the bad people from sex pests to possible terrorists are using VPN's to hide their dastardly deeds that it will be made law that VPN's have to release their records for something. Otherwise almost anything could be planned on the internet in complete privacy, i feel safe already! TOR is designed specifically to be completely anonymous. Good luck finding out anything about who's using TOR other than what exit node they're connected to. Brilliant, terrorists around the world are using this right now and there is nothing various govement a can do about it! You seem to know everything, I reckon there are people that work for governments that know more than you; god help us if they dont. You know it's funny, I actually looked at applying for a job in GCHQ before, but I'd have had to take a pay cut, and move to London, so I decided against it. Guess what that means? It means other people, who know more than me, have probably made the same decision. The pay in the private sector for IT experts is far far higher than what the government offer, hence the people that know the most, do not generally work for governments. It's really not a case of "god help us if they don't", you seem to be advocating a police state, where all communications and movements are monitored, I mean how else are we going to ensure our safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted March 29, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) TOR is designed specifically to be completely anonymous. Good luck finding out anything about who's using TOR other than what exit node they're connected to.If you believe that about Tor, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in buying.Ever notice how many of the exit nodes are sited in Northern Virginia? And that Tor's development was spearheaded by various US intelligence agencies?There's only one network I'd trust my anonymity on (if it ever attained sufficient scale), I2P. It's also technically superior to Tor from a host of other perspectives. About my only quibble with it is that it's in Java. Edited March 29, 2013 by leviramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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