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I think I mean "ability".

Sorry but that's complete rubbish.

There's a reason why we have restrictions on a ton of things, like gun ownership for example.

It's far better to restrict supply than to just punish offenders.

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Sorry but that's complete rubbish.

There's a reason why we have restrictions on a ton of things, like gun ownership for example.

It's far better to restrict supply than to just punish offenders.

Understandable point of view. But if I really wanted to shoot somebody I could go out and buy myself a gun without a great deal of difficulty.

Free will, freedom of expression and opinion, these are the things we need to hold dear as human beings. I'm constantly worried the state is closing it's net so I apologise if you feel I'm talking out of turn, but I genuinely believe that the obvious things aside (Murder, Rape etc) every human being should be allowed to make his or her own choices. If that includes breaking the law then so be it as long as they are prepared to face the consequences.

The Internet is sacred. It's the only true freedom we have left and they're starting to stifle it.

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Understandable point of view. But if I really wanted to shoot somebody I could go out and buy myself a gun without a great deal of difficulty.

Free will, freedom of exp<b></b>ression and opinion, these are the things we need to hold dear as human beings. I'm constantly worried the state is closing it's net so I apologise if you feel I'm talking out of turn, but I genuinely believe that the obvious things aside (Murder, Rape etc) every human being should be allowed to make his or her own choices. If that includes breaking the law then so be it as long as they are prepared to face the consequences.

The Internet is sacred. It's the only true freedom we have left and they're starting to stifle it.

If you seriously wanted to pirate you can still go out and do it without a great deal of difficulty, a lot easier than you'd ever find someone willing to sell you a gun.

What about the right to protect your creations? What if you were a director, a singer, a games developer, and your big creation was just pirated because everyone had the means and will to do so. You've poured your life into it and everyone is just enjoying it for nothing, where do your rights stand there?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm probably one of the biggest pirates around. I'll make no secret of the fact I download TB's of TV and Movies a month. But the attitude that it's my right to be able to do so? That no one should do anything to stop it or try to prevent it? No, that's not right at all. The content creators need to protect their income, without it there is no income. People can go on about how they're still making money, but if there was no enforcement on sites that violated their copyright then you can be pretty much assured that more people would do it, because if they can only go after the end user then it becomes more and more difficult to actually go after anyone. People will just use VPNs, they'll claim they have open WiFi and that it wasn't them, and the cost of enforcement would be prohibitive. It's the sites providing the content that are doing the damage, it's those that should be targeted.

How about you go leave your car or house unlocked at night and then when your car or tv disappears you can just shrug and say "Well, at least I wasn't infringing on their right to free will! They were just exercising their freedom of expression!".

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Certainly going to be harder to get things now.

Not really, one door closes another opens.

It literally takes half an hour to set up an nzb indexing site. They mostly all use www.newznab.com. Absolute worst case, you can run your own index, it's not hard.

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There are no companies or organisations out there pirating movies or music, it's carried out by individuals and distributed for free in the hope that other individuals will do the same. You know, file sharing. I'm not entirely sure what you mean?

If you're talking about websites that facilitate the sharing such as Pirate Bay, then I have to disagree. Punishing people for breaking the law is one thing, taking away their right to do so is something else entirely.

I have a friend who's been to Uganda a couple of times and over there they have proper shops, as in bricks and mortar shops with frontages and that, that sell exclusivley pirated DVDs.

They even produce their own title sequence thing that goes on the DVD befoe the film (it's hilarious)

I'm not sure if it's a "legitimate" company. But it's more than just one guy on his computer

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I have a friend who's been to Uganda a couple of times and over there they have proper shops, as in bricks and mortar shops with frontages and that, that sell exclusivley pirated DVDs.

They even produce their own title sequence thing that goes on the DVD befoe the film (it's hilarious)

I'm not sure if it's a "legitimate" company. But it's more than just one guy on his computer

These also exist in Montenegro.

In Ghana they were all Chinese knock offs. 25 action films on one CD etc. Some fantastic taglines. I brought a few of them home and sold them on eBay. If someone asked if they were pirated, I would reply that I'd bought them in a bricks and mortar shop and so they couldn't be. eBay sent me a cease and desist and then restricted my account. Still made about €50 million out of it though.

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I have a friend who's been to Uganda a couple of times and over there they have proper shops, as in bricks and mortar shops with frontages and that, that sell exclusivley pirated DVDs.

They even produce their own title sequence thing that goes on the DVD befoe the film (it's hilarious)

I'm not sure if it's a "legitimate" company. But it's more than just one guy on his computer

Heck, I cross the bridge into Malaysia and see shops like these almost immediately after passing customs. They are ubiquitous in developing countries where broadband access isn't as widespread.

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If you seriously wanted to pirate you can still go out and do it without a great deal of difficulty, a lot easier than you'd ever find someone willing to sell you a gun.

What about the right to protect your creations? What if you were a director, a singer, a games developer, and your big creation was just pirated because everyone had the means and will to do so. You've poured your life into it and everyone is just enjoying it for nothing, where do your rights stand there?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm probably one of the biggest pirates around. I'll make no secret of the fact I download TB's of TV and Movies a month. But the attitude that it's my right to be able to do so? That no one should do anything to stop it or try to prevent it? No, that's not right at all. The content creators need to protect their income, without it there is no income. People can go on about how they're still making money, but if there was no enforcement on sites that violated their copyright then you can be pretty much assured that more people would do it, because if they can only go after the end user then it becomes more and more difficult to actually go after anyone. People will just use VPNs, they'll claim they have open WiFi and that it wasn't them, and the cost of enforcement would be prohibitive. It's the sites providing the content that are doing the damage, it's those that should be targeted.

How about you go leave your car or house unlocked at night and then when your car or tv disappears you can just shrug and say "Well, at least I wasn't infringing on their right to free will! They were just exercising their freedom of expression!".

I don't understand - you think piracy should be stopped, yet you download pirated material on a regular basis? That doesn't make any sense.

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I don't understand - you think piracy should be stopped, yet you download pirated material on a regular basis? That doesn't make any sense.

No, I'm saying people should have the right to target the sites that actively encourage and profit from people pirating their content.

dont_do_it_doug seems to think that only the end user should be a valid target for legal action, that sites like megaupload, thepiratebay and nzbmatrix, that exist solely for copyright infringement (lets face it, despite having "legitimate" uses they make their bread and butter from piracy) and that actively profit from it, should for some reason be immune from prosecution because people should have "the right" to break the law if they want to.

My argument is that that's a dumb stance, and that people should have the right to take on the people that actively make content available and the sites that aid it's distribution, the way they do now, because that's the only way you can fight piracy.

I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend I'm not doing anything wrong and claim that the sites I use should stay around for ever because of some bullshit reason. I know that they're targets and that they can disappear at any time. I've switched sources many a time, and I'll probably have to do it countless more times. It's annoying having to do it, but, In the words of Omar Little, It's all in the game.

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Yeah but Omar was robbing drug dealers, probably a bit easier to have sympathy for his philosophies. But the comparison still kinda stands, he wasn't the root cause of drug problems, and neither are people who download illegally They are both a factor in the problems, but if the authorities went for the facilitators of the problem then it wouldn't exist.

If it wasn't possible to download illegally, or at least if it wasn't piss easy, then it would happen less. But like the war on drugs, where one site closes down, another opens. If there's easy money to be made, they'll be people willing to take the risks.

And using The Wire in a debate is awesome.

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Yeah but Omar was robbing drug dealers, probably a bit easier to have sympathy for his philosophies. But the comparison still kinda stands, he wasn't the root cause of drug problems, and neither are people who download illegally They are both a factor in the problems, but if the authorities went for the facilitators of the problem then it wouldn't exist.

If it wasn't possible to download illegally, or at least if it wasn't piss easy, then it would happen less. But like the war on drugs, where one site closes down, another opens. If there's easy money to be made, they'll be people willing to take the risks.

And using The Wire in a debate is awesome.

Exactly, you go for the facilitators, you hit the producers and you disrupt the supply chain. dont_do_it_doug thinks they should stick to doing buy and busts though.

You need to realise that Omar don't scare.

If you get a piracy letter from your ISP mixed in with your Christmas cards you might well scare.

Been there, didn't scare.

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No, I'm saying people should have the right to target the sites that actively encourage and profit from people pirating their content.

But with the explicit purpose of discouraging piracy.

I'm not trying to have a debate about which apparoach is best, both pragmatically and ethically speaking, at reducing online piracy. What I'm genuinely bemused about though is that you seem to think piracy is wrong, yet you openly admit to partaking in it liberally. The debate is about your motive and why it doesn't make a lot of logical sense, not the methods you advocate.

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