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The Assange/Wikileaks/Manning Thread

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A perfunctory search failed to turn up a suitable thread to revive, so 'ow 'bout a new, special, dedicated thread for discussion of the ongoing sagas?

My views?

For all the bluster over which right winger will be US president next year, to me THIS is the real political struggle of our age.

I think it's frankly laughable how much effort is put into politically convenient prosecutions like that of Slobodan Milosevic, while others (cough Bush, cough Blair cough cough) get away with what should be considered the ultimate War Crime: Starting one.

Governments are on a mission to increase the amount of monitoring they can impose on ordinary internet users, but go mental when they are subjected to scrutiny themselves.

As far as Sweden's case against Assange goes, there can be absolutely no doubt that it is politically motivated. The facts are that he had sex with two women on consecutive nights in Sweden. In one or both cases he didn't use a condom some or all of the time. Both the women in question were texting friends the next day expressing their thrill at being able to hang out with JA. The trouble started when they exchanged notes, and instantly there were two scorned women. The police got involved when one or both of them went to the cops to find out if they could force him to take an STD test (which he has since done and passed with flying colours, apparently).

As for poor Bradley Manning, who provided Wikileaks with their biggest scoops, he is in a very unenviable position, but his original motives seem to have been sound, and indeed commendable. On the one hand you don't want your junior servicemen to go screaming to the press at every opportunity, but on the other hand Manning found clear evidence of institutional abuses and injustices. What could be more patriotic than taking a personal risk to expose something that in the long run is guaranteed to come back to haunt your fellow servicemen, your country, and frankly the whole world?

Even if you don't think Manning should have done what he did, he has suffered a LOT, for a LONG time. As a deterrent against future whistleblowers, his detention has long since served its purpose.

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Assange needs to go to Sweden and answer the charges. Being a free speech superhero doesn't grant you immunity from prosecution for any crime anywhere in the world.

If the US are going to extradite him they can just do it through the existing treaties with the UK. They don't need to concoct a phony rape case and get him to go to Sweden. The rape case is separate from wikileaks.

Anyway, it seems he's put himself under house arrest for the forseeable future so I guess it's case closed :P

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As I understand it, the UK won't extradite him straight to the US because of the possibility of a death sentence (but not sure if this is correct. Anyone?)

Sorry, but the case against him in Sweden is so laughable that he is quite right to assume that Sweden are pursuing it in order to be able to send him to the US.

Edit: and btw it isn't a rape case. He has not raped anyone (see my summary in the OP). The Swedish prosecutors initially thought it was a rape case, then came up with something else when the facts became known.

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The rape charge is complete and utter BS, He banged one women, while the other one found out.. They were both pissed off with him, Decided to shout Rape.
All true, although I'm reasonably sure that neither of the women in question have themselves used the "R" word. In fact we've heard suspiciously little from either of them. I'd really like to know if they are pressing these charges or whether a case is being made without their co-operation. Afaik all they wanted was for him to take a test.

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As I understand it, the UK won't extradite him straight to the US because of the possibility of a death sentence (but not sure if this is correct. Anyone?)

Sorry, but the case against him in Sweden is so laughable that he is quite right to assume that Sweden are pursuing it in order to be able to send him to the US.

Yeah and obviously Sweden are one of the flag bearers for capital punishment in the world :lol:

The guy needs to face his accusers like any normal person. The Swedish justice system is one of the fairest in the world. Is it not possible that he could be guilty of a crime in his personal life or is that just unthinkable to his fans?

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As I understand it, the UK won't extradite him straight to the US because of the possibility of a death sentence (but not sure if this is correct. Anyone?)

Sorry, but the case against him in Sweden is so laughable that he is quite right to assume that Sweden are pursuing it in order to be able to send him to the US.

Yeah and obviously Sweden are one of the flag bearers for capital punishment in the world :lol:

The guy needs to face his accusers like any normal person. The Swedish justice system is one of the fairest in the world. Is it not possible that he could be guilty of a crime in his personal life or is that just unthinkable to his fans?

Sweden's view on capital punishment is utterly irrelevant. They are being lead by the US, plain and simple.

I suggest you study up a bit on the Swedish case against him. He may or may not be guilty of being an arsehole, but that is not a crime. I have never ever heard of anyone without STD's being EXTRADITED for having sex without a condom. Have you?

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And where would one find unbiased case file on Julian Assange to read all the evidence to be put before the Swedish judge before the trial has happened?

I think the ultimate irony is the guy has fled prosecution by one of the worlds fairest and most open legal systems by incarcerating himself for an undetermined amount of time in the embassy of a South American country with a dodgy human rights record :lol:

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And where would one find unbiased case file on Julian Assange to read all the evidence to be put before the Swedish judge before the trial has happened?

I think the ultimate irony is the guy has fled prosecution by one of the worlds fairest and most open legal systems by incarcerating himself for an undetermined amount of time in the embassy of a South American country with a dodgy human rights record :lol:

So you declare Sweden's legal system to be one of the world's fairest and most open, despite the fact that they are about to extradite someone for having sex without a condom?

I have seen a documentary on the case. If you really are interested in learning more, let me know and I'll try and find a link to it.

Be honest, if you were about to be extradited to face "justice" in the US, would you care about the human rights record of the only embassy that would take you in? (I'd also be interested in any information you have on Equador's human rights record. I mean, is it worse than the US's?)

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As far as Sweden's case against Assange goes, there can be absolutely no doubt that it is politically motivated.

I'm not so sure.

People may question the details surrounding the case, the goings on between the women after the event and so on but, in the end, someone has made an allegation against someone else of a crime and that needs to be investigated and pursued.

I don't think there's too much doubt that the US would seek to benefit in whatever way they can from these events - whether that is just having Assange holed up somewhere out of the way and embroiled in a rather messy saga centred aroung assault allegations or it is, in the end, to get him extradited to the US.

On that last point, I think it would be easier for the US to break their word (i.e. go back on any assurances about no death penalty) were Assange to be extradited from Sweden and not the UK and it would be easier for each of Sweden and the UK to partly put some of the blame for letting that happen on to each other as both would be responsible (as I understand it the UK would have to okay any extradition from Sweden as the original arresting authority).

And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44t3xc_XDes.

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The US hasn't actually made any request of either Sweden or the UK to extradite the guy.

At the moment it's just a matter between Assange and the Swedish prosecutor.

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The US hasn't actually made any request of either Sweden or the UK to extradite the guy.

Is it possible to officially apply for the extradition of someone if that someone isn't within the jurisdiction of the country where the application is made?

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The US hasn't actually made any request of either Sweden or the UK to extradite the guy.

Is it possible to officially apply for the extradition of someone if that someone isn't within the jurisdiction of the country where the application is made?

They could officially apply to any of the countries he's been living in since the story broke if they wanted to.

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As far as Sweden's case against Assange goes, there can be absolutely no doubt that it is politically motivated.

I'm not so sure.

People may question the details surrounding the case, the goings on between the women after the event and so on but, in the end, someone has made an allegation against someone else of a crime and that needs to be investigated and pursued.

As I understand it, the only reason the women went to the cops was to get him tested. You know what cops tend to be like: If you walked into a cop shop with that agenda, their first reaction would be "Okay, what can we charge him with?"

In any event, not even the prosecutors are saying the sex was non-consensual. Given that, what circumstances can you imagine would justify going to the lengths of actual extradition??

According to the documentary I saw, BOTH the women are on record as having sent text messages the day after to the effect that they were hanging out with JA and were pretty pleased with themselves about it. But that was before they exchanged notes.

And: EquaDOR! (I was expecting documentary evidence of how Equador was starting catastrophic wars against resource-rich countries with flimsy or falsified justifications, holding prisoners for years without trial and waterboarding them etc. Nice to get a music video instead :))

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Assange should go to Sweden and either face justice or clear his name.

Even if he clears his name, the swedes will still ship him off to the US..

So why didn't they do that when he was in Sweden 18 months ago?

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Assange should go to Sweden and either face justice or clear his name.

Even if he clears his name, the swedes will still ship him off to the US..

This. (Or the US will ship him off to the US). I mean they haven't said they will. They may even have said they won't, but if you were JA you'd have to be asking yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"

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