Media and punditry

[villa4europe]

i get where he's coming from that playing them home and away is great for the plymouth players but to suggest that merely playing liverpool twice would be remembered more than beating them at anfield? behave

i know it was a weak liverpool team but it'd be ronnie radford stuff in 20-30 years time

[mikeyp102]

3 hours ago, theboyangel said:

The BBC, particularly Gary linekar have recently become a very smug bunch haven't they?

certainly wouldn't mind seeing them being brought down a peg or two.  

Linekar has been a smug git for years. I can't stand him.

[Zatman]

incredible and pretty much disgraceful attitude again by Sky

Quote

On Saturday, the Sky Sports Gillette Soccer Special panel was given the chance to discuss Marco Silva’s arrival into English football at the Premier League’s bottom club, Hull City.

We can assume that presenter Jeff Stelling was aware that Paul Merson and Phil Thompson both held strong views on the appointment by the way he phrased his initial question, but what then followed was a truly astonishing rant. Astonishing enough to provoke Mediawatch into sleepy weekend action anyway.

Initially, Stelling tells Merson that Silva has good pedigree as the ex-Olympiakos and Sporting Lisbon manager. We’ll let the pair take over from there:

 

Merson: “I could win the league with Olympiakos. They’ve won it 107 times and it’s only been going 106 years.”

Paul Merson’s managerial career to date consists of a 94-game spell in charge of Walsall. He was appointed with the club in the Championship and he left them 19th in League One and with supporters protesting against his continued employment. No comment on Silva’s successful Sporting tenure or getting Estoril into the top flight and becoming the first manager in over five years to win a league game at Porto, you understand.

Merson: “The thing is, why does it always have to be a foreign manager? I’ve got nothing against foreign managers, but…”

But what? You just don’t want them at English football clubs? You don’t like them? Them getting jobs at English clubs makes you so angry you have to wipe spittle from your mouth?

Merson: “These ex-footballers are spending four or five years getting their badges, and what for? None of them are getting a chance.”

Ex-footballers like Mike Phelan, you mean? Who was given a chance by a little-known club called Hull City, completely failed and was quickly replaced?

Merson: “This is a good job. Hull are a good team, great stadium, some very good players.”

Clever this, from Merson. So now Silva is in charge Hull are a good team with very good players, and therefore if he fails, it is his fault.

Weird then that Merson’s last ten Premier League predictions for Hull have seen them draw one game, lose nine and concede 25 goals. Not so good after all.

Merson: “What’s he know about the Premier League? What’s he know?”

Given that Merson readily admits to not knowing much about Silva himself, we can reasonably estimate that he also doesn’t know much about how much Silva knows about the Premier League, if you’ll forgive the horribly extended sentence. You may detect a slight insinuation that Silva knows nothing.

Silva himself addressed this issue in his first press conference, of course: “In Greece I was already thinking about the next step – learning English was part of that. The Premier League is the biggest league. Now my biggest ambition is this miracle.”

So we can assume that having learned the language, Silva might also have done plenty of research on the league. ‘Three points for a win is it? Any extra points for scoring with your head? No? Grand.’

Thompson: “It’s totally astonishing that they have plumped for someone like this. It’s baffling. When there are a lot of people out there who know about the Premier League, about what’s required to dig in. He’s not got a clue.”

And there we have it, the motherlode: The assumption that foreigners can’t know about the Premier League? Check. The grouping together of all foreign coaches under the umbrella of ‘people like this’? Check. The accusation that foreigners are unable to ‘dig in’? Check. They’re all too busy drinking their strong coffee, kissing each other on the cheeks and shrugging to learn about pashun, after all.

Thompson: “It’s manna from heaven for him, with this CV, to be given a job like this.”

From a fine job at Estoril to Sporting to Olympiakos, where he managed in the Champions League. And Hull City is supposed to be improving Silva’s CV? That City of Culture tag really did wonders for the place.

Merse (when asked if Gary Rowett would even have taken the job): “Any manager of the world, unless you’re at Barcelona, Real Madrid and probably Atletico Madrid, every manager out there wants to manager in the Premier League. It is the ultimate.”

Sure, but the job on offer here wasn’t just a generic ‘managing in the Premier League’, was it; it was ‘Hull City manager’. And that’s slightly different.

But this really is golden. Can anyone truly be so obsessed with the Premier League that they believe managing Hull City is more attractive than Bayern Munich, Sevilla, Borussia Dortmund, Paris St Germain and a list of about 200 other sodding clubs? If so, we have a real problem on our hands.

Still, “probably” not Atletico, eh?

Merson: “This guy’s name will be known all round the world in two weeks. It’s a worldwide league.”

Presumably Merson has not spotted the irony in his own words. He thinks the Premier League is great because it’s a worldwide league and known around the world, but doesn’t want managers from around the world to come here unless they are in the top five in the world.

At this point, Matt Le Tissier (very much the hero of the hour) then points out that Mauricio Pochettino wasn’t that well-known to Merson or Thompson when he joined the Premier League, something that causes something of a silence amid our Brit devotees. That silence is broken by both squawking “Six months! Six months!” in reference to the length of Silva’s contract.

So is that the real problem here? If so, it’s not that weird to think that a short-term contract makes sense given that relegation is the likely end result for the worst team in the Premier League. Presumably if Silva had been given a four-year deal, Merson and Thompson would have been happy?

Thompson: “It’s just another slap in the face to British coaches and managers, and what they have done to make this appointment for six months is just embarrassing.”

It’s at this point that Stelling asks Thompson for a name other than Rowett; no answer is forthcoming. Instead, Thompson says any manager in the Championship or below, because ‘they know the league’. Mediawatch isn’t quite sure why all of them would know the league more than Silva if they’d never managed or played in it, but that doesn’t matter does it? As long as it’s British jobs for British clubs, all is well.

So let’s look at the top of the Championship, and the ones who ‘should be given a chance’: Rafa Benitez (foreign), Chris Hughton (had a chance in the Premier League), Jaap Stam (foreign), David Wagner (foreign), Garry Monk (had a chance in the Premier League), Carlos Carvalhal (foreign), Steve McClaren (had a chance in the Premier League), Paul Heckingbottom (Barnsley’s youth team coach a year ago and would be twice the gamble Silva is), Alex Neil (had a chance in the Premier League) and Slavisa Jokanovic (foreign)…

That’s the truly embarrassing aspect of all this. Hull City are a club whose owners have treated the fans appallingly, of that there is no doubt. But to use this appointment to champion the downtrodden British managers and dismiss a coach on the basis of his nationality is ludicrous. Since taking over in 2010, Hull’s owners have employed Nigel Pearson (young British manager), Nicky Barmby (young British manager), Steve Bruce (British manager) and Mike Phelan (British manager). It’s hardly astonishing that they might want to try something different. When you’re left siding with Assem Allam on football matters, the alternative argument must be truly rotten.

To end, Mediawatch will simply remind you of the quote from Lawrie McMenemy, when Pochettino was appointed at Southampton. You might spot a pattern: “With due respect to Pochettino, what does he know about our game? What does he know about the Premier League? Does he speak English?”

Silva may well not succeed in the Premier League; that is not the point being made. The point is that dismissing title-winning coaches with Champions League experience, after they are appointed at a club as relatively modest as Hull City, based solely on their nationality is unhelpfully xenophobic.

Perhaps if British coaches would consider moving abroad, they too could win titles and domestic cups. Until then, it’s probably easier to just to moan about Johnny Foreigner taking our jobs.

Mediawatch makes no apology for wishing Marco Silva all the very best.

http://www.football365.com/news/mediawatch-special-merson-thompson-and-marco-silva

[rodders0223]

What a brilliant article.

Would love to Silva steer them to safety. I watched the rant and it was all a bit too brexit for my liking.

[Davkaus]

I don't think anyone has ever accused Merson of talking sense.

Fantastic footballer, but his brain must be in his feet, because he's a **** moron.

[villa4europe]

they blatantly dont watch football outside of what sky pay them to watch, i would quite happily get paid £40k a year off sky and watch the Argentine 3rd division in my spare time incase one of the players one day rocked up in a europa league game i was covering, with the amount of football of tv, the amount of blogs, even games like FM building your knowledge base, IMO theres absolutely no excuse but these guys are ridiculously insular, its a big part of the reason ITV england fans discovered pirlo 10 years after everyone else and go in to every ther summer convinced we'll do ok

id bet my house on merson being unable to name a hull starting 11 or comment on how they set themselves up let alone come anywhere near explaining what silva did at olympiacos, tbf i cant either, can tell you a saw them twice in the CL a few years back vs juve in 2 incredible games, i know their CL record has improved, think they've even won away games under him and come close to getting out of some hard groups recently

surprised there arent more football based youtubers blowing up, think the only one i see a bit of is the drunk geordie

[NoelVilla]

That is astonishing. I really hope he does a good job now.

[HanoiVillan]

It really is undisguised propaganda. The purpose is not really to entertain - and certainly not to inform - but instead to mythologise the Premier League at the cost of the rest of world football, presumably largely because Sky have so much invested in the sport. 

[Grasshopper]

and we wonder why

Chelsea Conte

pool Klopp

Spuds Poch

ManC Pep

Arsenal Wenger

ManU Jose

Everton Koeman

The English national team last won a WC 51 years ago

and didnt even qualify for some WC's

Take a look at the "main players" of all the title winning teams since Sky invented football

English players are Shit at football

English managers are shit at managing football teams

So is anyone expecting English pundits to know WTF they are talking about?

F**** no

[Zatman]

I see Merse has now recommended England international legend Thierry Henry for the Hull job

[Xela]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I see Merse has now recommended England international legend Thierry Henry for the Hull job

Is he still drinking?

 

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, Xela said:

Is he still drinking?

 

Will have a look next time I see him in the White Horse up Whitehouse Common.

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

Will have a look next time I see him in the White Horse up Whitehouse Common.

Based on his latest comments it sounds as thought he visits the whitehouse often

[dAVe80]

Has the Birmingham Mail got a work experience in or something? Even by their standards, their output has been shite over the last couple of days. 'Reasons why Villa are the biggest club in the Midlands' (stating the ******* obvious), followed by 'Reasons why Villa are desperate to sign Lansbury' (cus our midfield is shit, didn't even need to read the article), and a heap of click bate nonsense mostly taken from speculation from other news outlets. I suspect tomorrow, we'll get another blog from that nose clearing in the woods, 'Why blose have da best fans, and Villa are just fannys from Staffordshire'. Terrible rag. 

[HanoiVillan]

7 hours ago, dAVe80 said:

Has the Birmingham Mail got a work experience in or something? Even by their standards, their output has been shite over the last couple of days. 'Reasons why Villa are the biggest club in the Midlands' (stating the ******* obvious), followed by 'Reasons why Villa are desperate to sign Lansbury' (cus our midfield is shit, didn't even need to read the article), and a heap of click bate nonsense mostly taken from speculation from other news outlets. I suspect tomorrow, we'll get another blog from that nose clearing in the woods, 'Why blose have da best fans, and Villa are just fannys from Staffordshire'. Terrible rag. 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, given you presumably haven't paid a penny for any of it, how much better do you have a right to expect it to be?

[TrentVilla]

30 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, given you presumably haven't paid a penny for any of it, how much better do you have a right to expect it to be?

I'm not sure that's really the point any more.

Newspaper circulations are in decline, that decline is terminal and has been in motion now for well over a decade.

Its not about selling papers, that model is gone and any paper depending on it will close. It's about online now, it's about unique visitors, bounce rates and clicks. 

Sadly the Mail seems to have opted to go for click bait rubbish and stretching a tweet from the Dr into an article.

The standards are so low, as shown when they recycled on old article before we played Small Heath which had quotes that were out of date by 6 months.

I'd say the journalistic standards were low but frankly it's not even journalism. All they seem to do is put out click bait and content they've picked up from elsewhere.

The Mail has been poor for a decade or more but it is fast becoming an irrelevance to Villa fans and I'd expect the same is true of other midland teams.

I don't think they can afford to lose that traffic and as non paying consumers rather customers people have a right to comment and ultimately go elsewhere for their news.

That they've not given some guy in half a blue shed 25p doesn't really come into it.

[dAVe80]

Yeah, what Trent said!

I'd just like to see some actual journalism from the biggest newspaper in the area. Some actual fact based stories, with quotes, obtained from sources and contacts. I don't want to see a list of stuff they got off Wikipedia, some half speculation akin to the Club Call shit we used to see on Teletext, and some bitter blog written by a sha fan who probably still lives with his mother, who may or may not still be alive.  

[HanoiVillan]

All this stuff you're saying, it costs money. I know they seem like it, but the people running the paper are not complete idiots. They know it's crap. But they're desperate. You load up the page now, they have not only banner ads and pop-ups, but they have those auto-playing, audio-on videos that drive traffic away from the site (can't load the site at work). But why? Because they're that desperate for money. 

'Some actual journalism . . . with quotes, obtained from sources and contacts' costs money. They're losing it, hand over fist. They can't afford it. 

[dAVe80]

49 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

All this stuff you're saying, it costs money. I know they seem like it, but the people running the paper are not complete idiots. They know it's crap. But they're desperate. You load up the page now, they have not only banner ads and pop-ups, but they have those auto-playing, audio-on videos that drive traffic away from the site (can't load the site at work). But why? Because they're that desperate for money. 

'Some actual journalism . . . with quotes, obtained from sources and contacts' costs money. They're losing it, hand over fist. They can't afford it. 

Yeah, I know how media (especially online) works, but my point is still valid. My point is, we should expect better from the region's biggest 'newspaper' (or it's online site in this instance). It's a poor excuse of a media outlet. The fact that the people running it know this, makes it worse.

[AJ]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

All this stuff you're saying, it costs money. I know they seem like it, but the people running the paper are not complete idiots. They know it's crap. But they're desperate. You load up the page now, they have not only banner ads and pop-ups, but they have those auto-playing, audio-on videos that drive traffic away from the site (can't load the site at work). But why? Because they're that desperate for money. 

'Some actual journalism . . . with quotes, obtained from sources and contacts' costs money. They're losing it, hand over fist. They can't afford it. 

This crap is worldwide, it happens on Australian sites too. Plus, we get the bonus clickbait of one sided facebook rants disguising itself as news exclusives.