Popular Post AJ Posted November 6, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 6, 2016 Can we at least grasp the notion that criticism of a player and booing a player are different animals? Criticising players comes natural in any sport, and is what makes sport forums able to turn on their axis. It points out their weaknesses. It leaves the door open for improvement for the relationship between fan and player, and if a player was able to improve their form or that part of their game, then that relationship is improved ( see: Jedinak. Gardner.) If the player hears or reads criticisms from fans, he has choices with how he can respond. He could take it on board, justify or vindicate himself, or he could choose to ignore it. Booing doesn't do any of this. Booing is a monosyllabic noise farted out from idiots mouths to express their displeasure, without actually expressing what exactly that displeasure is. The choices the player had to respond are no longer available. They just know that the fans don't like him, and he is damned either way whether he puts in a good shift or not. I think booing Westwood is passive aggressive pack mentality bullshit. Any animal can make a noise. Criticism, along with praise, offers hope, and if backed up, is actually constructive. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Came on, did nothing of note. Same old, same old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamsonwoodVillan Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 I've always said the same thing abiut him. He's one of those midfielders who needs the team to be generally playing ok and ticking over to look effective. Westwood can't make an impact on a game when we're not playing well. And he certainly isn't a substitute. Obviously the occasions since he joined where we've been in good form have been so few and far between he's never had a good enough run. His best time with us was in Lambert's first season where we picked up some points in that February through April run. I still think he'd be ok if we hit some form properly. He would do fine if Gardner, Tshibola, Jedinak and the team in general are playing with the ball and some more zip. As things stand he still shouldn't be in the team. Booing him I can't abide though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richp999 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 On 11/05/2016 at 23:01, StefanAVFC said: Really? He did literally nothing wrong today. Helped to close out the game well. What chance does he have with fans? Yes really. I was about 30 yards away watching with my own eyes. I watched him go for a 50/50 challenge a few times only to pull out at the last second. I want the player to fight for every challenge, if he did maybe wouldn't get so much stick. This is the main problem with him-he's not that bad, just not that good. He can be on the pitch looking like he's making a contribution, but actually not doing anything much at all. Compare him to midfielders we've had like Milner, Barry ,Ian Taylor, David platt, cowans... Come on, how low have our expectations dropped for fans on here defending him as 'good player'? Im sure he's a nice guy, but top quality midfielder, don't think so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) There are certain circumstances when booing a player should be accepted. players who show a level of disrespect to a club and their supporters ala the Delph saga players who have done immoral things in their personal life ala Johnson players who incite violence among other players and or supporters Ashley Westwood has done none of these things. In fact, it seemed that he and Ayew were the only players who looked semi-interested last season, and seemed like the only one who felt a genuine emotion after we had gotten relegated. The only thing he could be guilty of is being a 'poor player' Edited November 7, 2016 by Villaphan04 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 5 hours ago, richp999 said: Yes really. I was about 30 yards away watching with my own eyes. I watched him go for a 50/50 challenge a few times only to pull out at the last second. I want the player to fight for every challenge, if he did maybe wouldn't get so much stick. This is the main problem with him-he's not that bad, just not that good. He can be on the pitch looking like he's making a contribution, but actually not doing anything much at all. Compare him to midfielders we've had like Milner, Barry ,Ian Taylor, David platt, cowans... Come on, how low have our expectations dropped for fans on here defending him as 'good player'? Im sure he's a nice guy, but top quality midfielder, who said that he is either a good player or top quality? nobody in the post you quoted. I just said that he did nothing wrong when he came on. Which he didn't. He helped us close out the game. try reading the post, not responding to points nobody has made 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richp999 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: who said that he is either a good player or top quality? nobody in the post you quoted. I just said that he did nothing wrong when he came on. Which he didn't. He helped us close out the game. try reading the post, not responding to points nobody has made Er ok. I'm responding to the point you are making that he did nothing wrong. I'm saying that he did something wrong by bottling 50/50 challenges. Anyway like I said I don't hate the guy, I don't think he's terrible just don't like him as a player. I certainly don't think he should be booed at all, neither any of the players. I did hear general booing at half time which I thought was very odd. Anyway this is done - if he plays next time let's hope he tries a bit harder. I don't suppose you have a twin brother do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, richp999 said: Er ok. I'm responding to the point you are making that he did nothing wrong. I'm saying that he did something wrong by bottling 50/50 challenges. Anyway like I said I don't hate the guy, I don't think he's terrible just don't like him as a player. I certainly don't think he should be booed at all, neither any of the players. I did hear general booing at half time which I thought was very odd. Anyway this is done - if he plays next time let's hope he tries a bit harder. I don't suppose you have a twin brother do you? which 50/50 challenges? I saw one that I thought people would comment on, he "bottled" it and we got a throw. This thread is just nonsense at this point and your last sentence summarizes the strength of your arguments. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Booed on, does nothing wrong when he comes on, given stick. Honestly, I think he's got no chance with some fans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Much as I dislike Westwood I'd never boo him or any other player coming onto the pitch as sub. I could understand if he was being taken off after a dreadful performance but it's just daft to get on a player's back before he's even had a chance to kick the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 hours ago, richp999 said: Yes really. I was about 30 yards away watching with my own eyes. I watched him go for a 50/50 challenge a few times only to pull out at the last second. I want the player to fight for every challenge, if he did maybe wouldn't get so much stick. This is the main problem with him-he's not that bad, just not that good. He can be on the pitch looking like he's making a contribution, but actually not doing anything much at all. Compare him to midfielders we've had like Milner, Barry ,Ian Taylor, David platt, cowans... Come on, how low have our expectations dropped for fans on here defending him as 'good player'? Im sure he's a nice guy, but top quality midfielder, don't think so You can compare 90% of our midfielders over the past 30 years and say they are shite compared to Cowans, Platt, Taylor, Barry and Milner. What a shit comparision list. I notice you never compared him to Leonhardsen, Kachloul, Bakke, Curicic and Sylla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 10 minutes ago, KHV said: You can compare 90% of our midfielders over the past 30 years and say they are shite compared to Cowans, Platt, Taylor, Barry and Milner. What a shit comparision list. I notice you never compared him to Leonhardsen, Kachloul, Bakke, Curicic and Sylla yep. That response only works if anyone had called him top class. but no that response was to "he did nothing wrong in 15 minutes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 hours ago, Villaphan04 said: There are certain circumstances when booing a player should be accepted. players who show a level of disrespect to a club and their supporters ala the Delph saga players who have done immoral things in their personal life ala Johnson players who incite violence among other players and or supporters Ashley Westwood has done none of these things. In fact, it seemed that he and Ayew were the only players who looked semi-interested last season, and seemed like the only one who felt a genuine emotion after we had gotten relegated. The only thing he could be guilty of is being a 'poor player' This is the bottom line right here. Great summation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 40 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: yep. That response only works if anyone had called him top class. but no that response was to "he did nothing wrong in 15 minutes" Can you imagine how much you have to hate the bloke to read "he did nothing wrong in 15 minutes" and see "he's top class"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 7 hours ago, richp999 said: Yes really. I was about 30 yards away watching with my own eyes. I watched him go for a 50/50 challenge a few times only to pull out at the last second. I want the player to fight for every challenge, if he did maybe wouldn't get so much stick. This is the main problem with him-he's not that bad, just not that good. He can be on the pitch looking like he's making a contribution, but actually not doing anything much at all. Compare him to midfielders we've had like Milner, Barry ,Ian Taylor, David platt, cowans... Come on, how low have our expectations dropped for fans on here defending him as 'good player'? Im sure he's a nice guy, but top quality midfielder, don't think so Wow, that's fair. Let's pluck out a list of some of our best midfielders spanning something like 30 years then use that as grounds to boo him, because he isn't as good as Sid Cowans was. Maybe we should start booing Kodija because he's not as good as Dean Saunders was in 1992/93, or how about we boo every single centre back we'll ever have again because they're not as good as McGrath? Pathetic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpotvilla Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Westwood was sent on to close the game out,we closed the game out,no 88th minite equaliser,no real danger. He did his job along with the rest of them.I cant see the problem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 13 hours ago, AJ said: Can we at least grasp the notion that criticism of a player and booing a player are different animals? Criticising players comes natural in any sport, and is what makes sport forums able to turn on their axis. It points out their weaknesses. It leaves the door open for improvement for the relationship between fan and player, and if a player was able to improve their form or that part of their game, then that relationship is improved ( see: Jedinak. Gardner.) If the player hears or reads criticisms from fans, he has choices with how he can respond. He could take it on board, justify or vindicate himself, or he could choose to ignore it. Booing doesn't do any of this. Booing is a monosyllabic noise farted out from idiots mouths to express their displeasure, without actually expressing what exactly that displeasure is. The choices the player had to respond are no longer available. They just know that the fans don't like him, and he is damned either way whether he puts in a good shift or not. I think booing Westwood is passive aggressive pack mentality bullshit. Any animal can make a noise. Criticism, along with praise, offers hope, and if backed up, is actually constructive. I don't condone actions of stupidity granted.. but he is not cut out for this this league or this club. Shame.. but that's football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Maybe we should start booing Kodija because he's not as good as Dean Saunders was in 1992/93, or how about we boo every single centre back we'll ever have again because they're not as good as McGrath? Pathetic. Give it 2 games without him scoring it will be 'Kodija out!' You are forgetting. We are not fickle.. some just don't like Westwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richp999 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 52 minutes ago, KHV said: You can compare 90% of our midfielders over the past 30 years and say they are shite compared to Cowans, Platt, Taylor, Barry and Milner. What a shit comparision list. I notice you never compared him to Leonhardsen, Kachloul, Bakke, Curicic and Sylla A shit comparision list? I thought they were top players. I was making the point that over the past 5 or 6 years our expectations have been lowered so much that people obviously think this level of player is ok for Aston villa. You and others obviously love Westwood, so ill leave it at that. Its interesting how many premier league and come to think of it championship clubs were chasing his signature when we got relegated isn't it? Its OK to think a player isn't good enough. Can you honestly say you would have Westwood first on the team sheet in our midfield for the next 4 years? Or would you rather we sign a couple of new midfielders in the next window? If not that's fair enough, it's your opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Just now, AvfcRigo82 said: Give it 2 games without him scoring it will be 'Kodija out!' You are forgetting. We are not fickle.. some just don't like Westwood. I think that much is painfully obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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