Ashley Westwood

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Another Villa player who get's treated like shite unnecessarily IMO. He get's more abuse than the likes of Nzogbia did ffs, I'd almost call it "bullying". Just seem like an easy target because he is a quiet, humble guy.

[Keyblade]

32 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Another Villa player who get's treated like shite unnecessarily IMO. He get's more abuse than the likes of Nzogbia did ffs, I'd almost call it "bullying". Just seem like an easy target because he is a quiet, humble guy.

I know we've had a tough ride these past few years, but a bunch of grown men taking out all of these frustrations on one player who is conspicuously the most soft-spoken and was signed from the humblest of beginnings is quite weird, and frankly pathetic. Like, people actually despise him to their very core. Some deep-seated hatred that makes you think he's done something far more heinous than be a little shit at football   

[DCJonah]

I think people are going way over the top. We've had players and managers who have had much worse abuse online and at games. 

[Keyblade]

18 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think people are going way over the top. We've had players and managers who have had much worse abuse online and at games. 

For simply existing? Never seen anything like it before. We've had way worse players at the club like Kieran Richardson and some who are still with us like Bacuna and Cissokho as well. 

[BOF]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

For simply existing? Never seen anything like it before. We've had way worse players at the club like Kieran Richardson and some who are still with us like Bacuna and Cissokho as well. 

It's the polarisation factor.  The longer we talk about someone (507 pages!!!), you slowly lose all of the middle ground opinions and you end up, broadly speaking, with 2 sides trying hardest to be right.

I've nothing against the lad.  If he's not in the team it's because the manager thinks there's better available.  If he is in the team then it's because the manager thinks he's the best fit.  It's not his 'fault' if he gets picked.  If he does then he's showing something in training, which is to his credit.

The fans in the stands can do what they want.  If that's booing then that's unfortunate and no it won't help him.  But he's a big boy and hopefully with the help of his teammates he'll put in performances to turn opinion when or if called upon.  Like every other footballer.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

It's the polarisation factor.  The longer we talk about someone (507 pages!!!), you slowly lose all of the middle ground opinions and you end up, broadly speaking, with 2 sides trying hardest to be right.

This simply isn't true though; not for the last year at least.

The extreme negativity and rabid hatred (from some) outweighs even any neutral opinion by miles.

[DCJonah]

9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

For simply existing? Never seen anything like it before. We've had way worse players at the club like Kieran Richardson and some who are still with us like Bacuna and Cissokho as well. 

You've never seen shit players get stick online or at games before? I find that very hard to believe. 

It's this kind of stuff that's way over the top. He's a poor player, been here too long and he's not liked. It's happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. 

[Keyblade]

21 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You've never seen shit players get stick online or at games before? I find that very hard to believe. 

It's this kind of stuff that's way over the top. He's a poor player, been here too long and he's not liked. It's happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. 

I've never heard one of our players get booed coming onto the pitch for simply being shit, ever. To be booed coming onto the pitch, you'd usually have to do something like say something stupid and offensive in the press at the very least.

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I've never heard one of our players get booed coming onto the pitch for simply being shit, ever. To be booed coming onto the pitch, you'd usually have to do something like say something stupid and offensive in the press at the very least.

Again I think you're going over the top. By all reports it was a minority of fans and was something not everyone heard. 

And to be fair, we probably haven't had a player as poor as him play as much as he has during such a shit period for the club. A player that if you didn't rate in the past you were told how you don't understand football or the role he plays. 

There's a few unique things with westwood that have led to a minority booing him. 

But there's been plenty of players and managers who have received worse abuse online and at games. 

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by DCJonah

[Keyblade]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Again I think you're going over the top. By all reports it was a minority of fans and was something not everyone heard. 

And to be fair, we probably haven't had a player as poor as him play as much as he has during such a shit period for the club. A player that if you didn't rate in the paste you were told how you don't understand football or the role he plays. 

There's a few unique things with westwood that have led to a minority booing him. 

But there's been plenty of players and managers who have received worse abuse online and at games. 

 

I don't think I was going over the top, unless what I said was wrong. Can you name a player who has been reported to have been booed coming onto the pitch without having done something egregious beforehand?

Also I get that some people on VT are still salty about a couple of comments from 3/4 years ago, but I doubt those people who were booing at the game (however few they were) post on here and were venting their online frustrations at the match.

It's not about how bad the abuse is in isolation, of course there's been worse. But it's completely disproportional compared to what he's done to deserve it. It's frankly preposterous. 

[Woodytom]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

Let me have them, then

Managers simply don't have the same effect on a game as the players do.  The can tweak tactics and change the personnel but they cannot control a ball or score a goal etc. etc.  Thus, to me anyway, having chants against the manager (which are poor form, still) just don't have the same impact as booing a player.

Makes you wonder why this team looks so much different under a new manager then. Needless to say, I disagree. Managers have a massive effect on the game. Not maybe as direct as a player with the ball but still massive. You say they can tweak tactics or change personnel..... refresh your memory with the praise Bruce received with his substitutions on Saturday. Massive impact.

I assume booing might make a manager uneasy.... less likely to focus on the game to make those changes or tweaks. What about the damage it may do to their confidence and motivation and how that may come across to the players and in turn effect their confidence etc.

We're going away from Westwood here, but I think it's blindingly obvious that it's one rule for one and one for another..... not necessarily in that managers should be booed and players not...... but in the way fans protect players and hang managers out to dry.

RDM was a poor manager for us in the time he had here. He was right to lose his job. However, Ash has been a poor player for about 10 times the amount of games RDM had and has reaped a very handsome wage from AVFC in the process.

Neither should be booed, but let's have it straight, they are/were both associates of AVFC and both imo, deserve the same reaction to fans booing/jeering them.

Unsurprisingly, that hasn't happened.

[Woodytom]

44 minutes ago, BOF said:

But he's a big boy

Think this is a good point BOF. Tbh, if we have players or managers that can't hack the fans getting on their backs (I'm not saying Westwood can/can't), then they are the kind of mentally weak people we perhaps should look to improve upon as we look to establish ourselves back in the top flight.

I'd take the abuse Westwood received anyday of the week compared to what's on offer to me.... He can even keep his wage and il keep mine. 

[bobzy]

26 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Makes you wonder why this team looks so much different under a new manager then. Needless to say, I disagree. Managers have a massive effect on the game. Not maybe as direct as a player with the ball but still massive. You say they can tweak tactics or change personnel..... refresh your memory with the praise Bruce received with his substitutions on Saturday. Massive impact.

I assume booing might make a manager uneasy.... less likely to focus on the game to make those changes or tweaks. What about the damage it may do to their confidence and motivation and how that may come across to the players and in turn effect their confidence etc.

We're going away from Westwood here, but I think it's blindingly obvious that it's one rule for one and one for another..... not necessarily in that managers should be booed and players not...... but in the way fans protect players and hang managers out to dry.

RDM was a poor manager for us in the time he had here. He was right to lose his job. However, Ash has been a poor player for about 10 times the amount of games RDM had and has reaped a very handsome wage from AVFC in the process.

Neither should be booed, but let's have it straight, they are/were both associates of AVFC and both imo, deserve the same reaction to fans booing/jeering them.

Unsurprisingly, that hasn't happened.

Quite obviously managers have an effect on the team as a whole.  During a game, some jeering/booing of them just isn't going to affect them in the same way it does a player, though.

"I assume booing might make a manager uneasy... less likely to focus on the game" - I get the uneasiness, but they have no moves to be judged on.  If a manager did literally absolutely nothing at all then it is still the players on the pitch who have to perform in the game.

I agree that players get less stick than managers overall - that's why this is a rare and, frankly, baffling circumstance - and I assume that's partly because of the ease with which managers can be sacked and replaced.  They also don't hit patches of form.  You never here about Benitez being in good form, it's always "Newcastle" or "Dwight Gayle".  Basically, it just isn't the same for players; they're, ultimately, the ones who need to deliver on the pitch and the ones who have the biggest impact on a game.

Booing one of your own players baffles me - particularly when he hasn't even been involved in the game.  If he's had a shocker, maybe there's some logic there (I'd likely applaud the change rather than boo the player, personally).  Otherwise?  Just garbage from the "fans".

 

P.S:  One of Steve Bruce's assumed praised substitutions was to bring on Westwood to close up the final few minutes - he got booed.

[Gary Thomas]

Booing is bad habit that needs to be stamped out. Grow the f**k up and be a supporter.

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Another Villa player who get's treated like shite unnecessarily IMO. He get's more abuse than the likes of Nzogbia did ffs, I'd almost call it "bullying". Just seem like an easy target because he is a quiet, humble guy.

"Another villa player...."

Who are the others, please don't say Gabby for christs sake....

[bannedfromHandV]

Westwood.

 

I think he gets a bit of a raw deal out of fans because sadly for him, he's become synonymous with our troubles over the last 5 or 6 years.

 

He was one of Lamberts first signings I think and at the time we were largely in agreement that Lambert was a good option for us so we were prepared to invest in his belief that the likes of Westwood, a 'bargain' from the lower leagues, would propel us up the table whilst keeping costs in check (blue sky thinking). I remember the SSN reports on us signing Westwood and how elated (and surprised) he appeared when interviewed whilst sat in a car leaving BH.

 

Westwood didn't settle immediately and the gulf between League 2/1 and the Prem was apparent but still, we allowed that as we still believed he would come good and the harsh realities of what was to become the next 4 or 5 years hadn't yet set in. Later in his first season, when the team had a bit of a purple patch toward the end he started putting in some good performances, there were whispers of an England call up though nothing ever came close to materialising (anyone English gets mentioned as a possible England representee at some point or another).

 

Fast forward 4-5 years and he hasn't kicked on, still plays the way he's facing, still light in the tackle and lacking physical presence, still a non-event in the air, he's been here as our club has degenerated into the mess it became six months ago and unfortunately for him, as a constant presence during that time he has to shoulder some responsibility. 

 

I don't agree with the level of vitriol aimed at him and I do believe he's been made into something of a scapegoat but I also recognise that he hasn't improved, he hasn't become the player we all hoped he would and he hasn't been able to be a part of the solution, which therefore makes him part of the problem.

 

Booing him is ridiculous but then with all due respect to us all, nothing amongst Villa fans surprises me any longer.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

I don't think I was going over the top, unless what I said was wrong. Can you name a player who has been reported to have been booed coming onto the pitch without having done something egregious beforehand?

Also I get that some people on VT are still salty about a couple of comments from 3/4 years ago, but I doubt those people who were booing at the game (however few they were) post on here and were venting their online frustrations at the match.

It's not about how bad the abuse is in isolation, of course there's been worse. But it's completely disproportional compared to what he's done to deserve it. It's frankly preposterous. 

But you're ignoring the pretty unique situation which has led to this. 

Name me another player who has played over 120 games, been a consistent starter and played consistently poor for the worst Aston villa side in premier league history and one of the worst teams in the history of the football club.

And is still playing while we struggled in the championship. 

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by DCJonah

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

"Another villa player...."

Who are the others, please don't say Gabby for christs sake....

Did you make this comment secretly hoping I would say Gabby?

There have been a few over the years, not that I can necessarily name them off the top of my head, I think Hutton is one which has been close on the past (Nice guy and hard working pro but not the best). Bacuna etc (Although his "champions league comments were funny). As far back as JPA, McCann etc. No need for me to name names as the majority of people on here get the point I was trying to put across.

What was your comment meant to achieve exactly?

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

But you're ignoring the pretty unique situation which has led to this. 

Name me another player who has played over 120 games, been a consistent starter and played consistently poor for the worst Aston villa side in premier league history and one of the worst teams in the history of the football club.

And is still playing while we struggled in the championship. 

 

Hutton, Gabby and Clark have been fairly consistent in our starting XI for a longer period than Westwood and have been just as bad if not worse. Hutton in particular has been shocking for 90% of his time here, a complete liability at times...and was still playing in our Championship struggle. Never once booed from what I can remember. The situation is not all that unique.

[sne]