A Footballing Decree Nisi

[commander]

Not having any of this... IMO anyone who turns their back on a club completely is better off as we dont need people like this ever down VP.

Quick question Kev. - Do you think footballers/Clubs and football as a sport in general havent turned their backs on supporters?

Footbsll clubs don't give a sh*t about the fans and why should they with people that are blinded so easily - blind love in a club is silly - but what's worse is the amount of people that will still stick up for MON - he is teh reason we're in this mess after buying lots of average players and paying them silly wages. Lerner is definitely at fault, BUT he's given us fans so much (just look at the money he's poured in and pissed away (mainly MON but also McLeish as well, just not to the same degree) and peopel say he needs o spend more - why exactly? He's spent enough money but it's been pissed away

He still has to pay for backing MON and will continue to do so - it'll take 5-10 years to get over his mismanagement. Look at how much we are currently losing each year

[commander]

Ah well, we got to page 5 before people started spouting the usual silly nonsense about MON. There is a thread about MON in other football where people can and do regularly post childish rubbish about him. Don't know why people can't confine themselves to that and not ruin every other thread in Villatalk.

The issues raised in this thread are to do with the attitude of fellow fans, not a manager we had 3 years ago.

What exactly is teh silly nonsense? He bought many, many overpaid average players -most of whom didn't play, and in some cases left for huge losses, in some cases for nothing and in other cases we had to pay them off to leave (Sidwell, Beye, Luke Young etc). Lerner shpouldn't have backed him but he thought what he was doing was right (incredibly foolish in hindsight).

Sorry to single you out - you are far from the only one - but it's fans like you that will stick up for a man who has screwed over this football club that are a massive problem to the club and will continue to bring this club down. It seems that there are general misconceptions that keep being repeated......

Spend More money? Where's it going to come from?

Lerner is n't backing us? He is - but maybe he's losing patience - when fans that can see all the damage casued will stil ldefend MON to the hilt maybe he thinks - what's the point?

OK what childish abuse have I posted about MON? Please remember that he walked away from us 5 days before the start of a season, held us fans in contempt (gabby incident, the non substitution of Luke Young and luke Moore when the fans clapped, moscow, the moscow 'apology' meal), spent (and wasted) millions upon millions on overpaid average players. McLeish was a terrible manager but at least he wanted to be here - he didn't jump ship.

I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on MON - do you think he did a good job taking everything into account?

Do you think he paid over the odds for any player?

Do you think he was 'successful'?

How long do you think it will take for the MON legacy to be rid of?

Do you wish he had never left?

Do you think he is completely blameless?

Do you think Lerner puts enough money into the club?

Do you think under MONs tenure when wages increased 4 fold from £20m to £80m this was an absolute disgrace? Or Mopney well spent?

What Lerner needs to do - is have a word with owners at Albion, Spurs / Newcastle and look at how they do things - i.e. properly and unfortunately like a business. In business you can't rely on an unpredictable, unreliable, egotistical, "quirky" person (such as MON) in charge as it will end in failure

[villanmike]

At least you have plenty of teams to choose from if you still fancy supporting a team...

Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City maybe Arsenal will be ok for you.

Supporting a football club is not always about winning, it never is never will be.

I love Aston Villa and will always support them regardless.

[houllierout]

Toys out of the pram...

[Dodgyknees]

What is our clubs identity? Who are we?

[Danwichmann]

At least you have plenty of teams to choose from if you still fancy supporting a team...

Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City maybe Arsenal will be ok for you.

Supporting a football club is not always about winning, it never is never will be.

I love Aston Villa and will always support them regardless.

You really don't get it.

I'm completely with the OP, I can't get excited anymore, but that has nothing to do with winning trophies and I won't be supporting anyone else. It's about modern footballers, and even more so modern football fans.

[Daveburnside]

I think some people need to grow up.

Part of getting totally carried away is letting it all go with a smile, because It means sweet FA in the scheme of things.

If you're in a position where the fortunes of a football team dictate the quality of your life to such a degree then I might I suggest a massage parlour!?

[paul34]

At least you have plenty of teams to choose from if you still fancy supporting a team...

Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City maybe Arsenal will be ok for you.

Supporting a football club is not always about winning, it never is never will be.

I love Aston Villa and will always support them regardless.

we get disheartened when were at a low but if we'd have won the first 2 games we'd have been on a high,thats how life is but whatever happens villas part of my life and wherever we play im gonna be following the lads so dont give up good times will come back.

VTID

[Zatman]

Im sort of with the OP in the opposite sense that if Villa is reason i have a slim interest in football if they werent around i wouldnt give a toss about Premier League, Champions League or football in general.

too many diving, cheating words removed getting great money for doing **** all, its technically fraud

[FamousHolteUnion]

I'll be honest, the thing I hate about Villa is the fans. Yeah the players aren't great and overpaid and dont put a shift in, we dont have investment... but Its not that that I've got bored and annoyed with.

It's the fans, the certain posters and tweeters who cant be anything other than incessantly pissed off. Personal abuse of management, the constant Mc'InsertInsult' names last season - pathetic. Booing at HT of our first home game, Banners every-****-season wanting somebody out. I cant remember the last time in my life where we didnt want 'SOMEBODY out'.

People refusing to go to VP whilst McLeish was there and yet there were still 5k missing this week.

It's not every fan, a lot on here and on twitter are insightful, enjoy football and have some good points to make but the constant bitching and moaning and the incessant whinging is just tiresome and it's making me lose my love of the game.

Some people just seem to enjoy having something to moan about.

[avfc1982]

I’ve had a long chat with myself recently. I’ve come to the realisation that, having fallen out of love with football a while ago, I can no longer rightly call myself an Aston Villa fan.

I’ve been holding on to this delusion, justifying to myself the time, money and effort I have invested in being a Villa supporter. The tens of thousands of miles driven, the thousands of pounds and the thousands of hours are not easily written off. The effort I put into starting and running a supporters club in this small corner of the country, again not easy to write off.

However, like a marriage that stays in place for the sake of this kids, my marriage to Villa has remained for the sake of my own sanity. For my own sake, I must now declare this marriage over. I’ve reached the tipping point. I’m out.

I don’t get any joy from being a Villa supporter anymore. In days gone by, win lose or draw, I’d have enjoyed the match. Newcastle and Sunderland would be the first 2 away games I’d look for when the fixtures were released. Last season, I didn’t even check to see when those fixtures were on. This season I haven’t bothered either.

What has caused me to finally decide on this sporting emancipation? You probably won’t like the answer. I could go on for hours and pages and days and paragraphs explaining exactly why, but it boils down to this simple statement.

The people.

Footballers, the people who run the game, and the supporters. Each group has their faults and I am powerless to change them. Yet, I am particularly turned off by the attitude and actions of some of the so-called supporters of Aston Villa. If things don’t go their way, the immediate reaction is to lash out and blame individuals. The sporting element is gone. People are immediately branded as poor human beings. This ire isn’t restricted to the players. Men and women who simply do their best at their daily jobs are subjected to some pretty horrific abuse by the nameless and the mindless. Have a read of some of the posts on this website or listen to the talk in the stands at Villa Park and try to tell me that these distasteful actions and words are those of a minority. Where I once enjoyed the tribal element of supporting this football club, I now find that things have irretrievably too far.

So, I’ve taken the decision to divorce myself from AVFC. In all honesty, it’s an easy decision to make. The plaster doesn’t need ripping off – it’s already limp and falling off anyway. What I’m doing now is simply deciding to embrace what should have been obvious to me for some time.

I’m sure I’ll have a mourning period and, like a lonely divorcee, I’ll be tempted to go back during some particularly dark moments. I’ll wean myself off things like Villa Talk and I’ll probably be seen in the Off-Topic sections for a little bit. This will fade away too I’m sure. And if you're muttering to yourself about this being self-indulgent hogwash, good for you.

I’m pretty strong in my resolve and I’m out.

Oh what pompous drivel. You support your club through thick and thin. I've seen worse than this and still stuck by them, as have every other real Villa fan. If you don't like what you read on an Internet messageboards, don't read them. We may go down this season, and we may not. Whatever happens though we'll still be Villa fans because it's in our blood. If not, then Villa were never in your blood in the first place.

Grow a pair!

[TRO]

Come on.

We really think that we could have increased our turnover to allow for the wages we were paying? And not only maintain that level but continue to build?

Well champs lge qualification gets you what? 20m alone?

Would have helped!!

It would have been a short fix.

That money wasn't going to hold off city and spurs for ever.

Eventually we would have reached the same point.

Do you really think had MON signed a few more quality players that we'd still be in the top 6, with top players on big wages right now?

If Martin O'Neill had of signed significantly better quality players he would still be with us.... The last 2 managers who have made it worse would never have needed to be appointed.

I am not blaming MON for the "extent" of our problem, I'm blaming him for the start of it, by squandering too much valuable money on players that did not come off....Then subseqently 2 managers came in who made it considerably worse, could be said due to the conditions they had to work in, but that is a matter of opinion ( I never fancied either)

A large part of the success of any manger, is who he buys and that is not necessarily big money, although it undoubtedly helps.

[TRO]

Come on.

We really think that we could have increased our turnover to allow for the wages we were paying? And not only maintain that level but continue to build?

Well champs lge qualification gets you what? 20m alone?

Would have helped!!

It would have been a short fix.

That money wasn't going to hold off city and spurs for ever.

Eventually we would have reached the same point.

Do you really think had MON signed a few more quality players that we'd still be in the top 6, with top players on big wages right now?

If Martin O'Neill had of signed significantly better quality players he would still be with us.... The last 2 managers who have made it worse would never have needed to be appointed.

I am not blaming MON for the "extent" of our problem, I'm blaming him for the start of it, by squandering too much valuable money on players that did not come off....Then subseqently 2 managers came in who made it considerably worse, could be said due to the conditions they had to work in, but that is a matter of opinion ( I never fancied either)

A large part of the success of any manger, is who he buys and that is not necessarily big money, although it undoubtedly helps.

[TRO]

Ah well, we got to page 5 before people started spouting the usual silly nonsense about MON. There is a thread about MON in other football where people can and do regularly post childish rubbish about him. Don't know why people can't confine themselves to that and not ruin every other thread in Villatalk.

The issues raised in this thread are to do with the attitude of fellow fans, not a manager we had 3 years ago.

How can anyone avoid the stone blind obvious... where do you think the fans frustration has come from having spunked a kings ransom on players who we have just got nothing from... either sold for nothing or left having no effect on the performance of the team.... for sure the other 2 have had an effect, but the other 2 hav'nt had 4 years to blow most of their transfer money on players with low technical ability....albeit managed to dabble a bit.

are you just in denial, Briny

[Risso]

We still have fans that criticise Lerner for not investing - when you look at the accounts you'll actually begin to realise that if it wasn't for his massive investments - over the past 3 years particularly - we'd be bankrupt and there probably wouldn't be a football club at all.

What utter nonsense!!!!

Utter nonsense indeed. The reason we're an insolvent company is that Lerner lost control of finances, particularly under the O'Neill era, so expecting us to be grateful is a bit remiss.

[houllierout]

expecting us to be happy he has loaned money from his family accounts to cover his inability to have a wage budget is really stupid

[TRO]

We still have fans that criticise Lerner for not investing - when you look at the accounts you'll actually begin to realise that if it wasn't for his massive investments - over the past 3 years particularly - we'd be bankrupt and there probably wouldn't be a football club at all.

What utter nonsense!!!!

Utter nonsense indeed. The reason we're an insolvent company is that Lerner lost control of finances, particularly under the O'Neill era, so expecting us to be grateful is a bit remiss.

Risso, Once again I beg to differ, Randy Thought Martins signings were top notch and that he had an informed manager, so why, at the time of signing these players would he forsee, not getting much playing value from them and selling them off at vastly reduced prices to avoid the vastly over the top wages.

You could say the same about O'Neill , how did he know,but he was the football expert.

All managers make mistakes we know, but in this case far too many.

[Risso]

We still have fans that criticise Lerner for not investing - when you look at the accounts you'll actually begin to realise that if it wasn't for his massive investments - over the past 3 years particularly - we'd be bankrupt and there probably wouldn't be a football club at all.

What utter nonsense!!!!

Utter nonsense indeed. The reason we're an insolvent company is that Lerner lost control of finances, particularly under the O'Neill era, so expecting us to be grateful is a bit remiss.

Risso, Once again I beg to differ, Randy Thought Martins signings were top notch and that he had an informed manager, so why, at the time of signing these players would he forsee, not getting much playing value from them and selling them off at vastly reduced prices to avoid the vastly over the top wages.

You could say the same about O'Neill , how did he know,but he was the football expert.

All managers make mistakes we know, but in this case far too many.

I wouldn't expect Lerner to know footballers' inside leg measurements, but I would have expected him to at least do sum basic budgeting. No problem at all with him backing O'Neill, but it's clear that he couldn't afford to sustain it. So what the bloody hell was he doing sanctioning Heskey on a three year £65K a week contract, or Beye etc? And having spent £20m on the likes of Davies and Cuellar, to then carry on backing O'Neill after buying Collins and Dunne a year later was just idiocy. The time to start scaling back slightly was after the first dire set of financial results, not keep at it for three more years until we're completely and utterly bollocksed financially.

[briny_ear]

Ah well, we got to page 5 before people started spouting the usual silly nonsense about MON. There is a thread about MON in other football where people can and do regularly post childish rubbish about him. Don't know why people can't confine themselves to that and not ruin every other thread in Villatalk.

The issues raised in this thread are to do with the attitude of fellow fans, not a manager we had 3 years ago.

How can anyone avoid the stone blind obvious... where do you think the fans frustration has come from having spunked a kings ransom on players who we have just got nothing from... either sold for nothing or left having no effect on the performance of the team.... for sure the other 2 have had an effect, but the other 2 hav'nt had 4 years to blow most of their transfer money on players with low technical ability....albeit managed to dabble a bit.

are you just in denial, Briny

People who seek to blame MON for everything that is wrong with AVFC are the ones in denial. He was set a task of quickly getting us to challenge for top 4. He had a go and didn't quite make it. End of story. Anyone who can twist the story to claim he is responsible for the fact that fans regularly slag off each other, the players, coaching staff and chairman/board are being inventive in the extreme. Apart from anything else, this has been going on since well before MON's time. Remember "We're not fickle, O'Leary..."?

(Also, if it was appropriate to discuss O'Neill in this thread, I would have to raise a few issues with your rather one-eyed account of his transfer policy and the value of the players he bought.)

[houllierout]

Ah well, we got to page 5 before people started spouting the usual silly nonsense about MON. There is a thread about MON in other football where people can and do regularly post childish rubbish about him. Don't know why people can't confine themselves to that and not ruin every other thread in Villatalk.

The issues raised in this thread are to do with the attitude of fellow fans, not a manager we had 3 years ago.

How can anyone avoid the stone blind obvious... where do you think the fans frustration has come from having spunked a kings ransom on players who we have just got nothing from... either sold for nothing or left having no effect on the performance of the team.... for sure the other 2 have had an effect, but the other 2 hav'nt had 4 years to blow most of their transfer money on players with low technical ability....albeit managed to dabble a bit.

are you just in denial, Briny

People who seek to blame MON for everything that is wrong with AVFC are the ones in denial. He was set a task of quickly getting us to challenge for top 4. He had a go and didn't quite make it. End of story. Anyone who can twist the story to claim he is responsible for the fact that fans regularly slag off each other, the players, coaching staff and chairman/board are being inventive in the extreme. Apart from anything else, this has been going on since well before MON's time. Remember "We're not fickle, O'Leary..."?

(Also, if it was appropriate to discuss O'Neill in this thread, I would have to raise a few issues with your rather one-eyed account of his transfer policy and the value of the players he bought.)

nice