Zatman Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 funny part is players that could have been bargains Maloney and Routledge are thriving elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 funny part is players that could have been bargains Maloney and Routledge are thriving elsewhere yeah, bad signings but not necessarily bad players, ultimately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Players not good enough for where we were but would walk into our current team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Swansea team have done more in 2 seasons than we did under MON aand he has played an important role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Oneil signed a few duds sadly it was a majority not just a handful. imo you'd have to class anyone who left on a free transfer as nobody would pay for them as a dud, and that was the majority of players o'neill signed I can't agree - Milner, Young, Downing, we doubled our money. The real duds were Beye, Heskey, Harewood - and what gets me they weren't good players that flopped, they looked highly likley to fail when we signed them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Oneil signed a few duds sadly it was a majority not just a handful. imo you'd have to class anyone who left on a free transfer as nobody would pay for them as a dud, and that was the majority of players o'neill signed I can't agree - Milner, Young, Downing, we doubled our money. The real duds were Beye, Heskey, Harewood - and what gets me they weren't good players that flopped, they looked highly likley to fail when we signed them. well we didnt really double our money on any of them. milner we brought in 16m and ireland, young we paid 9.5 and brought in 16m, and downing we paid 12 and brought in 18. but that's neither here nor there, we definitely did well out of those 3. unfortunately they were in a huge minority, which it seems gets forgotten when the fact that we turned profit on them is brought up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 There aren't many more examples of ridiculous transfer fees for average players, other than Carroll and Torres. It's a bit of an anomaly. So I don't think mentioning Carroll's transfer has any relevance in the 'All managers make mistakes, therefore MON would' argument. It was an extreme example. But you don't think there are strikers that were signed for big money that were poor that we can compare to us signing Carew? You don't think there are examples of wingers signed for big money that were poor that we can compare to young? Same thing for Milner? Of course there are, I'm not disputing that MON made some good signings. I don't think anyone is. Young, Milner, Downing, Carew, Petrov & even Dunne & Collins to a certain extent, were good signings. But there were many, many bad signings made by him. The list of players that were given good wages for many years, and then given a bit-part role in the squad was too long. Lambert isn't amazing in the transfer window, but I genuinely think that if we keep Lambert for 3+ years and he spends a similar amount of money as MON, we will see a better calibre of player, lower losses in wages and increased sales for the players that do leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Oneil signed a few duds sadly it was a majority not just a handful. imo you'd have to class anyone who left on a free transfer as nobody would pay for them as a dud, and that was the majority of players o'neill signed I can't agree - Milner, Young, Downing, we doubled our money. The real duds were Beye, Heskey, Harewood - and what gets me they weren't good players that flopped, they looked highly likley to fail when we signed them. well we didnt really double our money on any of them. milner we brought in 16m and ireland, young we paid 9.5 and brought in 16m, and downing we paid 12 and brought in 18. but that's neither here nor there, we definitely did well out of those 3. unfortunately they were in a huge minority, which it seems gets forgotten when the fact that we turned profit on them is brought up Which players do you have a beef with then ? Ive mentioned, Beye, Heskey, Harewood There are others like Cuellar NRC - who despite never being greats - played a reasonable amount of games. Dunne, Collins, performed well for a time, as did Carew. Basically it seems there are 3 groups 1.Hits that we sell on for an increased fee 2.Hits - that we don't get a fee back for, but given decent performances in there time at the club 3.Flops, those who never make it , and we take a hit financially..... Ganted MON has a fair number in group 3 - but I wouldn't say most of his signings in the 4 years he was here are in that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Oneil signed a few duds sadly it was a majority not just a handful. imo you'd have to class anyone who left on a free transfer as nobody would pay for them as a dud, and that was the majority of players o'neill signed I can't agree - Milner, Young, Downing, we doubled our money. The real duds were Beye, Heskey, Harewood - and what gets me they weren't good players that flopped, they looked highly likley to fail when we signed them. well we didnt really double our money on any of them. milner we brought in 16m and ireland, young we paid 9.5 and brought in 16m, and downing we paid 12 and brought in 18. but that's neither here nor there, we definitely did well out of those 3. unfortunately they were in a huge minority, which it seems gets forgotten when the fact that we turned profit on them is brought up Which players do you have a beef with then ? Ive mentioned, Beye, Heskey, Harewood There are others like Cuellar NRC - who despite never being greats - played a reasonable amount of games. Dunne, Collins, performed well for a time, as did Carew. Basically it seems there are 3 groups 1.Hits that we sell on for an increased fee 2.Hits - that we don't get a fee back for, but given decent performances in there time at the club 3.Flops, those who never make it , and we take a hit financially..... Ganted MON has a fair number in group 3 - but I wouldn't say most of his signings in the 4 years he was here are in that group. anyone who ultimately left for a free or massively reduced fee because we couldn't find any takers because of wages. not all necessarily bad players, but most bad signings regarding the last point you make, have a look back at all his signings. it's shocking reading Edited March 14, 2013 by P3te Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I think there are a few 'inbetween' groups. NRC was a good signing and contributed for around 1 season until him and MON fell out, then he was used again under Houllier. But he still left for free at the end, and MON did sign him for a massive fee, then fell out with him. = dud signing. Luke Young was signed for around £4m, played for around a season, then left on the bench and was replaced by a centre back (my lasting memory of Cuellar are his lofty, lobbed passes down the right wing, landing in the standin 9 times out of 10). = dud signing. Cuellar himself was pretty expensive, then made to play at rightback. Also, his wages were so high that we couldn't afford to give him a payrise or an extended contract and he left for free. = dud signing. Even Dunne and Warnock. Dunne was good under O'Neill, but he's supposedly on massive wages, despite being almost 30 when we signed him, and is now looking to leave on a free at the end of the season. Warnock was good for 6 months, then looked dreadful after the Carling Cup Final, and cost us around £6m. Too much money was wasted on average players. Credit where it's due, O'Neill got them to overperform at times. I just think we would have done so much better if he had left all the transfer dealings to someone else. Imagine O'Neill getting more good players to overperform. We might have actually cracked the top 4 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 So players are only good signings if we manage to sell them for good money? So RVP is a poor signing? Will Rio Ferdinand be considered a dud when they don't get any money for him? I guess shearer was a dud for Newcastle as well. No money back for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Swansea team have done more in 2 seasons than we did under MON aand he has played an important role Do you think routledge is good enough to start for a team challenging the top 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted March 14, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2013 There's a Martin O'Neill thread in Off-Topic for this, lads. This thread's about Ron Vlaar. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevangrealish Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Swansea team have done more in 2 seasons than we did under MON aand he has played an important role Do you think routledge is good enough to start for a team challenging the top 4? Of course not. IMO Routledge is a good premier league rotation player and a quality championship starter. Nothing more or less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Swansea team have done more in 2 seasons than we did under MON aand he has played an important role Do you think routledge is good enough to start for a team challenging the top 4? Of course not. IMO Routledge is a good premier league rotation player and a quality championship starter. Nothing more or less than that. Well this season he has pretty much shoved that statement down your throat....anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevangrealish Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Swansea team have done more in 2 seasons than we did under MON aand he has played an important role Do you think routledge is good enough to start for a team challenging the top 4? Of course not. IMO Routledge is a good premier league rotation player and a quality championship starter. Nothing more or less than that. Well this season he has pretty much shoved that statement down your throat....anyway Meh he's been an alright player wherever he's gone(Besides from his younger days ). About time he had a season where he's shone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Average at best Beaten in the air far to often has concrete in his boots His passing may be ok but if he raises his leg above 45 degrees he picks up a calf injury Not what we needed certainly not the no nonsense tough centre half we were craving and are still missing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 we need a big game for him. He did a good job vs Carroll and Zamora is a similar type of player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 looks very good on the deck both defending and when on the ball but questions remain over his aerial ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Calms everyone down, I really think we'll really struggle if he gets injured again this season. Got a great block on Hill's shot at the very very end, that was screaming in the top corner but he got a bit wide piece of Ron on it and deflected it wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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