SikhInTrinity Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 He did but then Vlaar also went to him and put his arm around him to show some leadership. Lambert did also, so you can see the togetherness of the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 11, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2013 We lack leaders and there's no doubting Ron's leadership qualities. I just hope his dodgy calf holds up for the rest of the season. Calves are the new knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 The defence is undeniably stronger with him in it. And that's as much, if not more, down to his leadership and experience than it is down to his ability. Probably but we've really no-one else anyway. I don't think Vlaar has been an noticeable improvement on either Cuellar, Collins or Dunne. He might be better on the ground but is much poorer dealing with the high ball into the box and our defence is still fragile because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 11, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2013 The defence is undeniably stronger with him in it. And that's as much, if not more, down to his leadership and experience than it is down to his ability. Probably but we've really no-one else anyway. I don't really know what this means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 He did but then Vlaar also went to him and put his arm around him to show some leadership. Lambert did also, so you can see the togetherness of the side. yeah i saw lambo calling him over after benteke scored and telling him not to worry great man mangement i like to see togetherness in the side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) The defence is undeniably stronger with him in it. And that's as much, if not more, down to his leadership and experience than it is down to his ability. Probably but we've really no-one else anyway. I don't think Vlaar has been an noticeable improvement on either Cuellar, Collins or Dunne. He might be better on the ground but is much poorer dealing with the high ball into the box and our defence is still fragile because of that. His cost is a lot less than the above you mentioned which kind of says where we were with the 'inept' spending of MON. Cuellar, Collins and Dunne cost a combined 17million, then when you add Davies to it my god! Edited March 13, 2013 by SikhInTrinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 The defence is undeniably stronger with him in it. And that's as much, if not more, down to his leadership and experience than it is down to his ability. Probably but we've really no-one else anyway. I don't think Vlaar has been an noticeable improvement on either Cuellar, Collins or Dunne. He might be better on the ground but is much poorer dealing with the high ball into the box and our defence is still fragile because of that. His cost is a lot less than the above you mentioned which kind of says where we were with the 'inept' spending of MON. Cuellar, Collins and Dunne cost a combined 17million, then when you add Davies to it my god! Jesus, sometimes you forget just how bad O'Neill was in the transfer market. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Cuellar, Collins and Dunne were part of one of the best defences in the league. Dunne was voted into the PFA team of the year his performances were that good. Sometimes you forget how well these players did under him. Not really his fault houllier and Mcleish were absolutely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 They weren't bad players but none of them were worth anything near the fees we paid for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Dunne was voted as one of the top 2 defenders in the league. Doesn't seem bad for £5 million. Collins played a big part in our defence and again £5 million isn't crazy money and we got around half of that back once he was sold. Cuellar was expensive but he'd just been voted players played and press writers player of the year in Scotland and had a great campaign playing in Europe for rangers. His price was expensive because rangers didn't want to sell so we had to meet his selling clause to sign him. At the end of the day they played a big part in being one of the best defences in the league. I know it's been awhile since we had a decent defence but that's what defenders should be doing. Unfortunately other managers couldn't get the same level of performance from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just because Dunne was voted into the team of the year one season and Cuellar and Collins were also part of a good defence in one single season doesn't mean they were worth their fees and wages. People need to remember that there were seasons after 09/10. To be honest I don't think we'd even be having this discussion if it wasn't O'Neill who signed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 People need to remember that there were seasons after 09/10. Yes like I said its a shame other managers couldn't get them to perform. Not sure how that's his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) I think it's clear that ability-wise they just weren't worth the money we paid. You can go on about other managers not getting the best out of them all you like but clearly they were never that good to begin with if they're poor under two successive managers. The cracks were already appearing in the latter stages of the 09/10 season anyway. It's O'Neill's fault because he simply overpaid for these players. Dunne in particular was a shocking deal. £5m and a 4 year 55k a week deal for a 30 year old (he was almost 30 when we signed him). Great business that. He's going to leave on a free, just like Cuellar is (who we paid almost £8m for). I know it isn't O'Neill's fault that these players have left/are going to leave for nothing but maybe if he'd been a bit smarter in the transfer market we wouldn't be in that situation. Edited March 13, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 This is just stupid. Are we blaming houllier for the fact bent hasn't been worth the money under two different managers? No. Because that would be idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I'd disagree that Bent wasn't worth the money. He kept us up in 2010/11 and was a big factor in keeping us up last season. I blame Houllier for Makoun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I am surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 About what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 John you love Oneil - fair enough. But if you cannot agree that paying almost 27 million for Dunne, Collins, Cuellar and Davies all of which had long term 40k plus contracts with davies also having the option in his contract of always earning the same as the highest earner at the club and a bit extra then you are just being stubborn. I loved the Oneil years but the man **** up the majority of his transfers and crippled the wage bill (because he was allowed to) you can count the good players he signed on one hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 WTF, Davies had to be the highest earner? That's just mental if true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Dunne was voted as one of the top 2 defenders in the league. Doesn't seem bad for £5 million. Collins played a big part in our defence and again £5 million isn't crazy money and we got around half of that back once he was sold.Cuellar was expensive but he'd just been voted players played and press writers player of the year in Scotland and had a great campaign playing in Europe for rangers. His price was expensive because rangers didn't want to sell so we had to meet his selling clause to sign him. At the end of the day they played a big part in being one of the best defences in the league. I know it's been awhile since we had a decent defence but that's what defenders should be doing. Unfortunately other managers couldn't get the same level of performance from them. Pub league standard in Scotland, I'd stand out in that league despite a replacement knee. Cuellar was a decent footballer with a great attitude but let's not over hype him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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