VillaChris Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Clark has been fine for most of this season. I thought Baker was coming on well at the end of last season but yet another one who "shone" in a relegation battle and is seemingly incapable of performing to the same standard in mid table safety e.g. most of the team. Baker's o.k against the teams who hoof it all game long like West Ham and Cardiff where he did well but yet against the better teams he's getting found out far too often and his distribution is woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 To those saying we should've brought in more CB's in the summer: it's easy to say that now. More CB's would just have been too much in the beginning of the season. We weren't saying it now - quite a few were saying it in August. You have to look at the probabilities Vlaar - Has a patchy injury record Clark - Struggled last season - and although some are citing an improvement this - he is still far from a commanding centre half Baker - Did ok last season - but still didn't look ready for a full premiership season Okore - Yep fine prospect - but still very young and by no means guaranteed to cut it in the premier league - especially in his first season So really, without Vlaar we were relying on a very patchy selection. To spend 4-5m on Tonev and Helenuis, and chance our arm at CB always looked a bit of gamble. I like Lambert but he messed this one up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 He didn't mess it up. You don't need 5 CBs. Even with Vlaar's injury record (which is exaggerated) we'd still be ok were it not for that Okore injury. Take any team and take out of one of their better CBs for the entire season and they will struggle in that department. We've just been very unlucky with Dunne being injured last season and Okore this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 He didn't mess it up. You don't need 5 CBs. Even with Vlaar's injury record (which is exaggerated) we'd still be ok were it not for that Okore injury. Take any team and take out of one of their better CBs for the entire season and they will struggle in that department. We've just been very unlucky with Dunne being injured last season and Okore this. According to wikipedia Vlaar missed half of the 06-07 season due to a foot injury, played 4 games in 07-08, and no games in 08-09 due to a cruciate. He also missed about 2 months for us last season . That sounds like he is injury prone to me. Okore was unlucky as he had no injury history and knackered his knee in September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) He didn't mess it up. You don't need 5 CBs. I agree you don't need 5 centre backs. What you need is at least 2 good centre backs and another two that can come in and provide adequate cover. For me we don't have that now and didn't have it in the summer. We have a good centre back in Vlaar. In Okore we have a 20 year old lad who had played 65 senior games for a club in a much inferior league to the Prem. Looks a cracking prospect but many players who have shone abroad have failed miserably in England so he was very much unproven. To cover the above we had Clark and Baker. Both seem to have cracking attitudes and never give less than 100%. Sadly for me though they have shown themselves not to be good enough. Definitely when they play alongside someone else lacking a bit of nous and experience they look lost. And apart from Vlaar we certainly lack nous and experience at the back. Edited December 15, 2013 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 He didn't mess it up. You don't need 5 CBs. Even with Vlaar's injury record (which is exaggerated) we'd still be ok were it not for that Okore injury. Take any team and take out of one of their better CBs for the entire season and they will struggle in that department. We've just been very unlucky with Dunne being injured last season and Okore this. Would you not be feeling more comfortable now if we had a seasoned centre back to stand in for Vlaar ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 If he intended to use 3-5-2 a fair bit this season then we needed 5 for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) He didn't mess it up. You don't need 5 CBs. Even with Vlaar's injury record (which is exaggerated) we'd still be ok were it not for that Okore injury. Take any team and take out of one of their better CBs for the entire season and they will struggle in that department. We've just been very unlucky with Dunne being injured last season and Okore this. Would you not be feeling more comfortable now if we had a seasoned centre back to stand in for Vlaar ? Only if said centre back was actually good. I wouldn't be confident if it was someone like Dunne. I think it's more about composure than it is about experience. Before his injury Okore to me looked calm and composed. He played like an experienced player even though he didn't have much experience. Edited December 15, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 He didn't mess it up. You don't need 5 CBs. I agree you don't need 5 centre backs. What you need is at least 2 good centre backs and another two that can come in and provide adequate cover. For me we don't have that now and didn't have it in the summer. You also need strikers who can score goals on a regular basis, midfielders who can create chances for the strikers and/or win the ball back, fullbacks who can defend and also put a good cross in from time to time. Basically, you need money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 He didn't mess it up. You don't need 5 CBs. Even with Vlaar's injury record (which is exaggerated) we'd still be ok were it not for that Okore injury. Take any team and take out of one of their better CBs for the entire season and they will struggle in that department. We've just been very unlucky with Dunne being injured last season and Okore this. Would you not be feeling more comfortable now if we had a seasoned centre back to stand in for Vlaar ? Only if said centre back was actually good. I wouldn't be confident if it was someone like Dunne. I think it's more about composure than it is about experience. Before his injury Okore to me looked calm and composed. He played like an experienced player even though he didn't have much experience. OK - I was factoring in 'good' as a given. 'Experienced', 'Composed', 'good' call it what you like (its many words for the same thing) Would you not feel more comfortable if we had a another (Good, Composed, Experienced - insert your own word) to stand in for Vlaar in his absence ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Arsenal only have 3 CBs, Mertasacker, Vermalean and Koscelney. With Kos injured, looks like Sagna will need to play back up. Chelsea have what Terry, Luiz and Cahill with Ivanovic able to fill in. Man. City have Kompany, Nastasic and Lescott. Liverpool have Sakho, Skrtel, Agger and Kolo Toure. The current top 4 don't have more than 3-4 regular CBs so I don't see why we need to stockpile them, the Okore injury just after the window closed basically knackered us for half the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 He didn't mess it up. You don't need 5 CBs. I agree you don't need 5 centre backs. What you need is at least 2 good centre backs and another two that can come in and provide adequate cover. For me we don't have that now and didn't have it in the summer. You also need strikers who can score goals on a regular basis, midfielders who can create chances for the strikers and/or win the ball back, fullbacks who can defend and also put a good cross in from time to time. Basically, you need money. Yes (all very true) but this the Vlaar thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Arsenal only have 3 CBs, Mertasacker, Vermalean and Koscelney. With Kos injured, looks like Sagna will need to play back up. Chelsea have what Terry, Luiz and Cahill with Ivanovic able to fill in. Man. City have Kompany, Nastasic and Lescott. Liverpool have Sakho, Skrtel, Agger and Kolo Toure. The current top 4 don't have more than 3-4 regular CBs so I don't see why we need to stockpile them, the Okore injury just after the window closed basically knackered us for half the season. we have 4 - but two are very weak players - that's the problem - If we had 4 good ones - it wouldn't be an issue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Clark? Very weak? Not this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Trouble is it's a lot easier to get said two good reserve cbs warming the bench for top 4 clubs than mid table going nowhere in a hurry clubs. Said two good cbs on the bench would want to move on like oh I don't know say Gary Cahill? I doubt he'd be desperate to leave Chelsea when Mourinho eventually benches him again for David Luiz as he'll still play games and win medals there. Clark has been decent enough in most of the games he's played so I don't get why if Okore was magically fit he'd be poor back up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshVilla Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 We need you, Ron! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Trouble is it's a lot easier to get said two good reserve cbs warming the bench for top 4 clubs than mid table going nowhere in a hurry clubs. Said two good cbs on the bench would want to move on like oh I don't know say Gary Cahill? I doubt he'd be desperate to leave Chelsea when Mourinho eventually benches him again for David Luiz as he'll still play games and win medals there. Clark has been decent enough in most of the games he's played so I don't get why if Okore was magically fit he'd be poor back up? Well they wouldn't be warming the bench now ......or probably for the bulk of the season. Kozak didn't have any qualms about coming as Benteke's understudy...... anyone coming should had confidence enough to be picked ahead of Baker\Clark..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 OK - I was factoring in 'good' as a given. 'Experienced', 'Composed', 'good' call it what you like (its many words for the same thing) Would you not feel more comfortable if we had a another (Good, Composed, Experienced - insert your own word) to stand in for Vlaar in his absence ? Of course I'd feel a lot more comfortable if we had a good CB to step in - Okore could've been this but unfortunately he got injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Kozak used to be a centre back. He can fill in if we get that desperate. Lambert might have bought him with that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Frustrates me to think we could have had one of the best partnerships in the league had we been much luckier with injuries. Vlaar - Okore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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