hogso Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I like my funions salty My jolly ranchers grape Can't say I really dig the way My mind you tried to rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2014 The arguments still persists over whether BB is better than The Wire. I tend to think that BB is probably rather better because the ending was so much more satisfying than The Wire. I think that was kind of the point with the wire! Much more true to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I loved Breaking Bad but I got a lot more out of The Wire, ultimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 The arguments still persists over whether BB is better than The Wire. I tend to think that BB is probably rather better because the ending was so much more satisfying than The Wire. I think that was kind of the point with the wire! Much more true to life. When you watch BB it seems apparent that it is strongly influenced by the graphic novel: whether it is the way it is shot (the colours are garish) or the extreme characters. It definitely is influenced by The Wire but it is a psychological drama rather than a political one. The Wire offers some fascinating insights into post-industrial America and the consequences of economic collapse. Baltimore's biggest employers are the university and the hospital, which shows why drugs might seem like a decent career in a low-wage service economy. The politics demonstrate what polticians mean by a 'race to the bottom'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2014 I agree, but you were talking about how it ended rather than the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) I agree, but you were talking about how it ended rather than the difference. Yeah, but I was pointing out how BB was so detached from reality that it verged upon magical realism at times, and so The Wire just had to be more like reality, when compared with that. I remember Mooney did not like the ending of BB much because the machine-gun kind of tidied too many things up at once - with his excellent Deus ex-machine-gun joke. My objection to the ending of The Wire was that it betrayed its claim to reality by giving everyone a happy ending. McNulty finding domestic bliss; Kima being forgiven for ratting them out; Bubble being allowed up the stairs; and the kid becoming the new Omar Little. It would have been more like real life if McNulty had ended as a disgraced cop and homeless dipso, Daniels would have fixed the stats, and Bubbles would have been chucked out by his sister, for shaming her in the papers, while the real villains prospered. But I am not sure that is the reality the audience would be ready to face - dishing out the sweets at the end, kept the American dream intact. Edited September 25, 2014 by MakemineVanilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2014 The wire I don't think the ending was happy. Fair enough a few of the main characters get what they wanted, but as a whole, I'd say the ending was quite depressing. The drugs will never end, the corrupt journalist won awards etc The overriding theme at the end was the world sucks, and there's nothing you can do about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 The wire I don't think the ending was happy. Fair enough a few of the main characters get what they wanted, but as a whole, I'd say the ending was quite depressing. The drugs will never end, the corrupt journalist won awards etc The overriding theme at the end was the world sucks, and there's nothing you can do about it. I think The Wire ticked most of what I call the Die Hard boxes. The rebellious lead character has to be white but a non-wasp Celt like McClane - so that was McNulty. Tick! He has to have a black best buddy - Bunk. Tick! Just as in Die Hard, those in charge have to be corrupt, incompetent and self-interested - Tick! The plot always has to show the middle order characters getting the job done while those in charge get in the way for personal or political gains. Tick! The lower classes are shown as beyond reform and redemption, This flatters the middle-class audience by confirming their view of America; that it is run by a politically corrupt elite who look after themselves, and the only reason that the country runs at all is because the middle-classes do the right thing and all the important work, while the lower classes are beyond the pale. If seen this way, then the ending makes perfect sense because the middle-ranking characters may have lost the battle but got their consolations for getting the job done, despite their corrupt leaders. It confirmed the American dream, that it is still possible to be an honourable middle-class person who can build themselves a decent life, despite the corruption at the top and the deprivation at the bottom. It amounted to huge consolation for the target audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2014 I'm not sure what your point is there? The Wire is good because people like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2014 I agree, but you were talking about how it ended rather than the difference. Yeah, but I was pointing out how BB was so detached from reality that it verged upon magical realism at times, and so The Wire just had to be more like reality, when compared with that. I remember Mooney did not like the ending of BB much because the machine-gun kind of tidied too many things up at once - with his excellent Deus ex-machine-gun joke. My objection to the ending of The Wire was that it betrayed its claim to reality by giving everyone a happy ending. McNulty finding domestic bliss; Kima being forgiven for ratting them out; Bubble being allowed up the stairs; and the kid becoming the new Omar Little. It would have been more like real life if McNulty had ended as a disgraced cop and homeless dipso, Daniels would have fixed the stats, and Bubbles would have been chucked out by his sister, for shaming her in the papers, while the real villains prospered. But I am not sure that is the reality the audience would be ready to face - dishing out the sweets at the end, kept the American dream intact. Really, thats not how I saw the ending at all. Most were dead for a start; The fact that the same fate will more than likely come to the rest of the street gangs and homeless, as implied by the rest of the series, should not be missed. They are pretty much all doomed, no matter the outcome of that day. However this is portraying real life, and that has its ups too, which it tried to end on. Although taken in context with the rest of the series, you would not bet on that lasting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2014 To say the wire is similar to Die Hard or the American ideology is wrong. At best its far too simplified. The basic message of the wire was that life is out of your hands, which would seem totally at odds with your analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I'm not sure what your point is there? The Wire is good because people like it? My point was that I think David Simon produced a sometimes excellent series, using some very familiar cop-show tropes, some great scripts and an excellent cast, but then ruined the overall effect by insisting on sugar-coating the end. He should have listened to Larry David's advice - No hugging, no learning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2014 I just can't see how you can see the ending of the wire as "sugar coated". It ends on a major downpoint, imo. Just because a few characters end up alright doesn't make it a happy ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I need to get on with watching the wire, been meaning to get round to it for about 4 years. partly so i can open all these spoiler boxes 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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