The enemy within - Summer 2012

[mjmooney]

I'd be careful farting around the Olympic Stadium. Someone will smell something funny and the next thing you know Special Branch will have a MP5 digging into the back of your head.

Is that the latest digital music and video format? :winkold:

[Awol]

The way some of you go on you'd think the threat of domestic terror attacks was a myth. I've been told by sources intimately connected to these things that many 1000's of UK nationals have been through naughty training camps in Pakistan, and continue doing so today. Far more in fact than MI5 have the capability to keep tabs on, as evidenced by the fact they knew some of 7/7 bombers were bad guys but assessed (wrongly as it turned out) that others presented a more immediate threat. Some of the successes they have had in stopping terror attacks against UK targets since 7/7 are phenomenal and long may that continue, but they are monitoring 100's of potential plots at any one time that originate from our own countrymen.

Due to our links with Pakistan the UK is in a uniquely **** up position in the Western world regarding the numbers of extremists our society contains. France has a large extremist problem from its immigrant population that originated in North Africa, but nothing even approaching the same scale as us.

It will all end very badly one day.

[b6bloke]

so funny how every story has "not connected to the olympics" yet they dont even know that so soon after an arrest the dozy ****!!

Seven men have been arrested by police in anti-terror raids after weapons were found hidden in a car, police say.

Six men from the West Midlands and one from West Yorkshire were detained over three days, West Midlands Police said.

They said the car was stopped on the M1 in South Yorkshire on Saturday - a search later found firearms, offensive weapons and other material inside.

The BBC understands the arrests are not linked to the Olympics or Thursday's London arrests of six terror suspects.

The car had been impounded on suspicion of having no insurance.

Police traced and arrested the driver, passenger and others on suspicion of the commission, preparation, or instigation of acts of terrorism.

Forensic searches

Three men aged 23, 26 and 27 from Sparkhill, Birmingham, were arrested on Tuesday morning.

A 22-year-old from Alum Rock, Birmingham, a 24-year-old from Moseley and a 22-year-old from Smethwick, West Midlands, were arrested on Wednesday evening.

A 43-year old man from Kirklees, West Yorkshire, was arrested on Thursday.

Det Ch Supt Kenny Bell, head of the West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit, said: "As soon as the items were discovered in the impounded vehicle, our priority was to protect the public by pursuing and arresting those we believed to be involved."

The items recovered from the vehicle are undergoing forensic analysis and searches are being carried out at the addresses of those in custody.

Detectives were given extra time to question the three men arrested on Tuesday after the initial 48-hour detention period expired. They now have until next Tuesday morning to charge or release the men, or apply for further time.

All seven men are being held at a police station in the West Midlands.

[peterms]

The way some of you go on you'd think the threat of domestic terror attacks was a myth. I've been told by sources intimately connected to these things that many 1000's of UK nationals have been through naughty training camps in Pakistan, and continue doing so today. Far more in fact than MI5 have the capability to keep tabs on...

Perhaps if they didn't deploy staff to spend ten years undercover shagging green activists they might find their resources more adequate for the task?

[Demitri_C]

do you think they should they bring back death penalty for convicted terrorists?

[coda]

do you think they should they bring back death penalty for convicted terrorists?

No.

[blunther]

The way some of you go on you'd think the threat of domestic terror attacks was a myth. I've been told by sources intimately connected to these things that many 1000's of UK nationals have been through naughty training camps in Pakistan, and continue doing so today. Far more in fact than MI5 have the capability to keep tabs on, as evidenced by the fact they knew some of 7/7 bombers were bad guys but assessed (wrongly as it turned out) that others presented a more immediate threat. Some of the successes they have had in stopping terror attacks against UK targets since 7/7 are phenomenal and long may that continue, but they are monitoring 100's of potential plots at any one time that originate from our own countrymen.

Due to our links with Pakistan the UK is in a uniquely **** up position in the Western world regarding the numbers of extremists our society contains. France has a large extremist problem from its immigrant population that originated in North Africa, but nothing even approaching the same scale as us.

It will all end very badly one day.

In that case, what I don't get is why it hasn't happened repeatedly. You don't need to go to a training camp to kill tens or hundreds of people. Imagine two or three people at different points in a crowd, each with a homemade explosive or even a simple few guns. One blows up/opens fire, the crowds panic, another one blows up/opens fire, people panic even more, people trampled to death, hundreds dead in any busy area. It's not something you need to learn, it'd not something you could gather intelligence on. You could decide to kill a few people one afternoon and be done by that evening.

[TrentVilla]

Only getting hold of guns and explosives is thankfully not all that easy in this country. So I'd imagine these people at these training camps are taught how to make explosives or how to smuggle guns in order to be in a position to carry out these sort of attacks. Not to mention they will be taught how to use the weapons and they will be indoctrinated/brain washed in order to ensure they don't back out.

Just because 7/7 hasn't occured repeatedly doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of people out there trying or willing to try and make it so. There have been numerous arrests and prosecutions in the years since 7/7 and it is perhaps not coincidence that just a day ahead of the anniversary of that event we are hearing about 7 arrests, the day after 6 arrests.

That incidents like 7/7 is a credit to our police and security forces rather than evidence of a lack of desire to committ these acts or the ability to do so. They've slipped through the net and struck once, sadly like Awol I think it is a matter of when rather than if it happens again. We should perhaps remember that given the former troubles in Ireland our security forces are perhaps better equiped than any in the world for meeting this kind of threat.

[Awol]

The way some of you go on you'd think the threat of domestic terror attacks was a myth. I've been told by sources intimately connected to these things that many 1000's of UK nationals have been through naughty training camps in Pakistan, and continue doing so today. Far more in fact than MI5 have the capability to keep tabs on...

Perhaps if they didn't deploy staff to spend ten years undercover shagging green activists they might find their resources more adequate for the task?

That single individual was a Police Officer, and no, MI5 don't have anything like the resources they require - even without PC shag-a-lot. Worse, after the Olympics both MI5 and SIS are having their funding slashed by central government, a move of unfathomable stupidity.

[peterms]

The way some of you go on you'd think the threat of domestic terror attacks was a myth. I've been told by sources intimately connected to these things that many 1000's of UK nationals have been through naughty training camps in Pakistan, and continue doing so today. Far more in fact than MI5 have the capability to keep tabs on...

Perhaps if they didn't deploy staff to spend ten years undercover shagging green activists they might find their resources more adequate for the task?

That single individual was a Police Officer, and no, MI5 don't have anything like the resources they require - even without PC shag-a-lot. Worse, after the Olympics both MI5 and SIS are having their funding slashed by central government, a move of unfathomable stupidity.

Come on Jon, a better answer would be that the shagging was not part of the deployment.

But as we both know, the real point is that deploying highly trained, scarce, and expensive staff to monitor tree-huggers is just barking mad, and should cause us all to ask serious questions about the intellectual capacity and political affiliation of the people who run the various bits of the security apparatus (whether they are police, special police, MI5, MI6, or 007 is utterly irrelevant, from our, the punters', viewpoint. Their tedious little turf wars are really of no account).

[snowychap]

...the various bits of the security apparatus (whether they are police, special police, MI5, MI6, or 007 is utterly irrelevant...

What may not be irrelevant is whether some, most or all of those people are actually going to end up being employees of UKSecureLtd.com (subsidiary of QatariMercenaryUKOps based in the Caymans).

[Awol]

The way some of you go on you'd think the threat of domestic terror attacks was a myth. I've been told by sources intimately connected to these things that many 1000's of UK nationals have been through naughty training camps in Pakistan, and continue doing so today. Far more in fact than MI5 have the capability to keep tabs on...

Perhaps if they didn't deploy staff to spend ten years undercover shagging green activists they might find their resources more adequate for the task?

That single individual was a Police Officer, and no, MI5 don't have anything like the resources they require - even without PC shag-a-lot. Worse, after the Olympics both MI5 and SIS are having their funding slashed by central government, a move of unfathomable stupidity.

Come on Jon, a better answer would be that the shagging was not part of the deployment.

Who wouldn't like a job where you can get laid at work? Obviously with that individual case there was a complete breakdown of professionalism and morality, but does that mean the domestic and foreign intelligence services are all unprofessional, evil words removed? No, I don't think so.

But as we both know, the real point is that deploying highly trained, scarce, and expensive staff to monitor tree-huggers is just barking mad

Undercover police officers monitor all sorts of groups and that's neither strange or wrong, imo.

and should cause us all to ask serious questions about the intellectual capacity and political affiliation of the people who run the various bits of the security apparatus (whether they are police, special police, MI5, MI6, or 007 is utterly irrelevant, from our, the punters', viewpoint. Their tedious little turf wars are really of no account).

Don't mean to be rude but that's just a bit silly, imo.

[peterms]

Who wouldn't like a job where you can get laid at work? Obviously with that individual case there was a complete breakdown of professionalism and morality, but does that mean the domestic and foreign intelligence services are all unprofessional, evil words removed? No, I don't think so...

Undercover police officers monitor all sorts of groups and that's neither strange or wrong, imo...

Don't mean to be rude but that's just a bit silly, imo.

The thing about this case is not the shagging, though it does raise questions about professionalism, as do earlier examples from years back of members of the security services getting involved in plots.

The big thing for me is that they decided that it was a high priority and a sensible use of resources to get someone involved undercover for this length of time in a group like this. Presumably he's not the only one. If they really think that's where the nation's effort and resources should be going, especially when they claim to be stretched and under-resourced, it sounds like they need a complete overhaul and change of direction.

[b6bloke]

Did anyone see the program on Richard Dart? It really is 3 lions stuff when you go on tele praising terrorism etc knowing that you were going to take part at some point, not really very clever I would suggest.

Watch him here

Four terror suspects have appeared at Westminster Magistrates Court.

Three men from London - including Richard Dart, who appeared in a BBC Three documentary after converting to Islam - were charged with offences that involved travelling to Pakistan for training in terrorism between July 2010 and July 2012.

A woman was also charged with possessing terrorist material.

All four were remanded in custody until July 31, when they will appear for trial at the Old Bailey.

Dart, 29, of Ealing, Imran Mahmood, 21, of Northolt, and Jahangir Alom, 26, of Stratford, are charged with preparing for acts of terrorism between July 25, 2010, and July 6 this year.

The three men are alleged to have travelled to Pakistan for terrorism training, to have travelled abroad to commit acts of terrorism, and to have advised and counselled the commission of terrorist acts by providing information about travel to Pakistan and terrorism training, and operational security while there.

The woman, Ruksana Begum, 22, of Islington, is charged with possession of a digital memory card containing a document likely to be of use to a terrorist, from July 5.

According to the charges, Baqa is said to have had CDs containing a document entitled 39 Ways to Support and Participate in Jihad, as well as a number of issues of a magazine called Inspire, which it is said he planned to distribute.