DanishVillan Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Was a very different time back then. Denmarks biggest ever win is from 1908. 17-1 against the French. That was at the olympics though, We didn´t allow profesionals in the national side before 1971 and were terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Its a real weird one this.Every England player plays in the toughest and best domestic league in the world yet they dont win FA. All the other foreign teams,the ones that win world cups and european championships have players from other ( supposidely lesser leagues ) yet they do much better. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 its not that weird. English league is fastest in world but not the best. nearly every other league has a liking for players that can pass and control the ball unlike England, as tournaments are played in tremndous heat its a major disadvantage that a team cant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 How do you measure what the best league is? The English Premier League is top of the UEFA coefficients and has provided 8 of the last 16 Champions League finalists, including the current champions. I'd say it has a stronger claim than anybody else at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 maybe top tier is good but a league is more than 3 or 4 teams, was 3 spanish teams in Europa League semi-finals it indicates that their is more depth in spanish league for me. for me id rather watch the German league as games are more competitive at times and good football on display. Villa stayed up last season when we should have been relegated as we were possibly worse team to watch attacking and defensively, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 See, I thought you would say that. Let's take the period I quoted again with England providing 8 of the last 16 Champions League finalists. Those 8 appearances have been spread between four clubs (no prizes for guessing which four) Spain have had 3 appearances, all from one club. Barcelona. Italy have had 3 appearances spread between two clubs, AC Milan & Internazionale. Germany have had 2 appearances, both from one club. Bayern Munich. Is Spain a better league because their second tier of teams do well in the Europa League after getting eliminated from the big cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Think our attacking players were shackled by the system they were playing in, feeding of scraps and when they did have the ball in the Final 3rd they looked like they had never played together, running into each other, constant miss communications...Lets face it we were in the second easiest group in the tournament, if we were in other any group I doubt we would have made it out of the group stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Is Spain a better league because their second tier of teams do well in the Europa League after getting eliminated from the big cup? well 2 of the 3 werent drop outs and the drop-out team Valencia was the team that didnt make the final, after big 2 their is more depth in spain remember Bilbao who were midtable gave United 2nd a real runaround over 2 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster85 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I've done a little research recently and i will show you results. I was curious what domestic league was the best through the years. Of course from the XIX century to, i think, at least forties of XX, English league was the best league in the world without any doubt. But then? European cups gave us possibility to compare the strength of clubs from various leagues. Each winner of any major european cup gave his country 4 points, each second place team - 3, semifinalists - 2, quarterfinalists - 1. Then i sum up points from 5 last years. I was interested in 5 top leagues every year. Results for English league are as follows: 1956-57 - none 58-59 - 5th 60 - 4th 61 - 3rd 62-64 - 5th 65 - 4th 66 - 3rd 67 - 2nd 68-69 - 3rd 70-75 - 1st 76-83 - 2nd 84-86 - 1st (we should remember that in this period ban started) 87 - 3rd 88 - 4th 89-94 - none 95 - 5th 96-97 - none 98-99 - 5th 00 - 4th 01-03 - 3rd 04-05 - 2nd 06-07 - 3rd 08-11 - 1st 12 - 2nd If it wasn't for that ban from European cups, English league would be still the strongest for a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Is Spain a better league because their second tier of teams do well in the Europa League after getting eliminated from the big cup? well 2 of the 3 werent drop outs and the drop-out team Valencia was the team that didnt make the final, after big 2 their is more depth in spain remember Bilbao who were midtable gave United 2nd a real runaround over 2 games Can't really judge it by Europa league because the English teams don't take it seriously.. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 England are on a par with the likes of Sweden, Denmark, Greece and Russia. Greece? Are you kidding me? Because they won in 04? Greece are occasional qualifiers at best, England usually steamroller their way past everyone else in qualifying. I wouldn't deny that the English as a footballing team are quite far behind the Spanish and the Germans - and also, I'd argue, sides like the Dutch, Portugal and Italy etc. - but I don't buy the claim that we are as shit as some people make us out to be. Beckham did very well at Real and so did Owen. Rooney scores goals for fun in the Premier League, something Lampard and Gerrard used to do with clockwork regularity as well. Ashley Cole is arguably the world's best leftback. So on and so forth. There's the (frankly banal) argument that English stars are merely average players made to look good by quality teammates in their club sides. Well, fair enough, every once in a while we do see shitty footballers who look half-decent playing in good teams (Salomon Kalou springs to mind), but the chances of that happening with almost every single member of every England squad called up in the last few years are exceedingly small. Not to mention that you don't score 20-30 goals a season like Lampard and Rooney without being an excellent player, it just doesn't happen. I think one of the reasons why we do so poorly at major tournaments is tiredness. For me, WC 2010 - and the Algeria match in particular - was the perfect illustration of this. Fair enough if you don't think Rooney is the English Iniesta but you'd at least expect him to trap a ball properly, something he always does for Utd even when he's not on form. Same goes for the other players, they just looked so sapped to me. I'm not sure how this can be remedied tbh - I'm not entirely sure a winter break would work. I agree that there needs to be a change in mentality though. As I said earlier, England produces great players - just not the right type of players. We produce in great quantities players like Gerrard (and Rooney, god why do I keep bringing him up!) who are excellent at playing box-to-box and scoring goals while chipping in defensively at the same time. What we do have an alarming lack of are the "flair" players - the deep-lying playmaker, the tricky Mata-style creative no.10, flying wingers like Ribery and Robben - which I agree can be traced to a emphasis on physicality over ball control at the grassroots level. On the rare occasions when we do produce players like these - Scholes and Joe Cole, for example - they have more often than not been criminally underused - again, suggesting that English coaches are somehow still ideologically wedded to anachronistic football methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Greece? Are you kidding me? Because they won in 04? Greece are occasional qualifiers at best, England usually steamroller their way past everyone else in qualifying. got to quarter finals this year as well and only missed 1 tournament since 2004 similar to England for me are definitey an upper mid tier team in European football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Greece have won a major trophy this century and qualified for 4 of the last 5 tournaments. You cant just ignore those facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Greece? Are you kidding me? Because they won in 04? Greece are occasional qualifiers at best, England usually steamroller their way past everyone else in qualifying. got to quarter finals this year as well and only missed 1 tournament since 2004 similar to England for me are definitey an upper mid tier team in European football Also never seems to qualify for the World Cup Edit: :shock: my bad, they did qualify for the last WC. 08 aside, England usually have a far easier time in the qualifiers than the likes of Greece though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Overall history Brazil Germany Italy Argentina France Spain Thats the definite order of the top 6. After that it is a bit harder to judge. Holland Portugal England Uruguay Denmark Sweden I think 12 is enough, I dont want to go any further then that. But I think in terms of achievements on the world stage, that is the order. Many will think England should be higher, but I dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted June 27, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2012 I really do wonder how far ahead of the rest of the World England and Scotland were before the 1st World War. I read about Plymouth in the mid-20s being a 3rd division side going over to play Uruguay and beating them 4-0, before beating Argentina 1-0. If a 3rd division side can make a mess of the soon to be World Champions like that, surely England/Scotland would've walked the first few World Cups with embarassing results? I suppose it'd be a bit like if there was an American Football World Cup, the US probably wouldn't even bother entering. If they did and took it serious, would probably win every game by 50+ points. Indeed, the USA didn't enter the first two American Football World Cups (1999 and 2003). They've entered in '07 and '11 (and presumably will be in Sweden '15) and have yet to lose a game in the World Cup (though IFAF has recently rebranded it as the World Championship; either a FIFA trademark issue or they're saving the World Cup for when the USA enters NFL players... the QB of the 2011 USA squad is currently playing in Stockholm and the RB of that team is playing in the Finnish league). 2007 USA 77-0 South Korea USA 33-7 Germany USA 23-20 Japan (2OT) [Japan's first loss in the World Cup] 2011 USA 61-0 Australia (of course, the Aussies would beat the USA 67-5 in the RWC a couple of months later, which gives a certain symmetry...) USA 48-7 Germany USA 17-7 Mexico USA 50-7 Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Of course we are a top footballing nation. We are in the same group as the other big boys except we are at the bottom end of that group. We are basically a Champions League club. Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Greece etc are Europa League clubs. We can beat all the Europa League clubs but we can't beat other Champions League clubs. That doesn't make us a Europa League club it just makes us one of the weaker Champions league clubs. How many World Cups have Holland and Portugal won between them? None. We have very good players who (if they played to their full potential) could win a tournament. The only reason we got schooled by Italy was because of Roy Hodgson's negative tactics and formations. If we are not a heavyweight nation, then why have we beaten Germany, Argentina, France, Spain and Portugal more times than they have beaten us? Spain have only got good recently, pre-2008 they had an inferior record to us. You only have to look at our qualification group for the 2014 World Cup - Ukraine, Poland, Moldova, Montenegro and San Marino. Why do we never get Germany, Italy, France, Spain etc in our group? Because they separate the big boys in qualification and we are one of the big boys. We are Tier 1. We are better than probably 95% of national teams in the world. We are definitely are major footballing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 you are quite easily angered young man If we are not a heavyweight nation, then why have we beaten Germany, Argentina, France, Spain and Portugal more times than they have beaten us? but how many times in knockout games in major competitions and not friendlies. The only reason we got schooled by Italy was because of Roy Hodgson's negative tactics and formations. yeah that was the exact reason, was it also same reason Germany schooled you in 2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Of course we are a top footballing nation. We are in the same group as the other big boys except we are at the bottom end of that group. Spain have only got good recently, pre-2008 they had an inferior record to us. Why do we never get Germany, Italy, France, Spain etc in our group? Because they separate the big boys in qualification and we are one of the big boys. We are Tier 1. We are better than probably 95% of national teams in the world. We are definitely are major footballing power. So how many countries come into the top tier? Surely 10 is too many. Yeah pre 2008 they had an inferior record, but now, today they have a superior one. Also England do sometimes get drawn with the likes ofHolland Italy and Germany in world cup qualification. 1994, 1998 and 2002 qualifiers for a start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Also England do sometimes get drawn with the likes ofHolland Italy and Germany in world cup qualification. 1994, 1998 and 2002 qualifiers for a start To be fair they no longer do that. Those were the times, IIRC, when the Premier League still had just 3 CL spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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