BOF Posted May 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 29, 2012 While it is typical Panorama and they should always be taken with a pinch of salt, he did say he saw the nazi salute at every game he went to in the Ukraine. The other thing that would worry me was the official saying that they were merely 'pointing towards the opposition'. If that level of denial is typical within their FA then it is more likely that behaviour is widespread and is not being dealt with. The problem is that even if violence and fascism was on the fringes in Pokraine at the best of time, a major tournament is precisely the environment where it will come to the fore. Any under-current will blow up. The more worrying thing if you're English is that I've seen and heard elsewhere that the English are seen as the masters/creators of football violence and these Pokrainian 'understudies' want to show their English masters that they're just as good as them at it. So your George's cross will be a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWithe Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 While it is typical Panorama and they should always be taken with a pinch of salt, he did say he saw the nazi salute at every game he went to in the Ukraine. The other thing that would worry me was the official saying that they were merely 'pointing towards the opposition'. If that level of denial is typical within their FA then it is more likely that behaviour is widespread and is not being dealt with. The problem is that even if violence and fascism was on the fringes in Pokraine at the best of time, a major tournament is precisely the environment where it will come to the fore. Any under-current will blow up. The more worrying thing if you're English is that I've seen and heard elsewhere that the English are seen as the masters/creators of football violence and these Pokrainian 'understudies' want to show their English masters that they're just as good as them at it. So your George's cross will be a target. Bunch of shit lifters mate. seen many English firms over the years and that lot would be eaten for breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWithe Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I've never understood why neo-Nazism is so popular (compared to everywhere else) in Eastern Europe. You'd think that would be the last place. I would rather say that the left wing/communists/antifa is problem. Why? Because they are often as extreme as right wing but have backing of left wing media (majority in my country). I.e. German (sic!) leftists beat up a lot of normal Polish people on our National Independence Day just because they consider this holiday as fascist holiday! Yeah left wing extremists are also dangerous in these countries and our own. Both sides total opposite views but both just as dangrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 29, 2012 Bunch of shit lifters mate. seen many English firms over the years and that lot would be eaten for breakfast.Absolutely. I don't think the organised firms would have anything to worry about. The problem (if you can call it that) is that those firms will largely be prevented from travelling in the first place. And what's left over in Pokraine is families and guys who aren't there for trouble. Lambs to whatever slaughter is waiting for them. An unfair fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWithe Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Bunch of shit lifters mate. seen many English firms over the years and that lot would be eaten for breakfast.Absolutely. I don't think the organised firms will have anything to worry about. The problem is those firms will largely be prevented from travelling in the first place. And what's left over in Pokraine is families and guys who aren't there for trouble. Lambs to whatever slaughter is waiting for them. An unfair fight. This is also true. Thy just need to have enough Police around which I am sure they will...probably use the same tactics as Germany in 2006. Fact is its football and your always going to getting odd bits of trouble we still do often in the UK but the Police just about keep a lid on it despite using major resources. I dont think using what happens at club level in the league is realistic to compare to an International Tournament its a different kettle of fish totally in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I've attended a game in Poland and I'd never ever do it again, I wouldn't dream of it and I'm white. that bad ? i saw on ross kemps gangs that was pretty messed up The more worrying thing if you're English is that I've seen and heard elsewhere that the English are seen as the masters/creators of football violence and these Pokrainian 'understudies' want to show their English masters that they're just as good as them at it. So your George's cross will be a target. i think germans are more at risk than british. poles absolutely hate germans (which doesnt make sense when you consider there are groups who idolise hitler) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Going to England v France. Might make it a quick in and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 29, 2012 i think germans are more at risk than british. poles absolutely hate germans (which doesnt make sense when you consider there are groups who idolise hitler)They're not. There might be a general national hatred between Germany and Poland but within football, England are seen as the masters of football violence. I doubt Poland would say no to a scrap with the Germans but England is the number one target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 i think germans are more at risk than british. poles absolutely hate germans (which doesnt make sense when you consider there are groups who idolise hitler) Didn't Hitler have partial Jewish ancestry, or is that complete crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 While it is typical Panorama and they should always be taken with a pinch of salt, he did say he saw the nazi salute at every game he went to in the Ukraine. The other thing that would worry me was the official saying that they were merely 'pointing towards the opposition'. If that level of denial is typical within their FA then it is more likely that behaviour is widespread and is not being dealt with. The problem is that even if violence and fascism was on the fringes in Pokraine at the best of time, a major tournament is precisely the environment where it will come to the fore. Any under-current will blow up. The more worrying thing if you're English is that I've seen and heard elsewhere that the English are seen as the masters/creators of football violence and these Pokrainian 'understudies' want to show their English masters that they're just as good as them at it. So your George's cross will be a target. Did you watch the Sky Sports News version of this Polkraine hooligan thingy? The guys in that docu had massive respect for England and it was like they wanted to test themselves against the English hooligans. Even though hooliganism is basically dead in England we still have a massive rep from the 70s and 80s. But like you say, I doubt any English hooligans will be able to get over there. Like one of them mentioned playing Fulham in a Europa League game and how the Fulham fans ran away. Like you say it's an unfair fight. It's their hooligans vs our normal fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 29, 2012 Exactly TRS-T. The England of the 70s is held up as the standard. I did see the Sky Sports special report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 My English friends in Poland describe Ukraine as 'The Wild East'. Make of that what you will. I've been out to Poland and never saw any trouble out there. The general population are far better behaved than British people after a skinfull of vishnovka... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcarpet Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 My boss went to poland this year with fulham and all of the locals like their taxi drivers and hotel staff out there said there is going to be big trouble this summer and advised them not to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggaman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The latest response to Panorama: Euro 2012: Ukraine hits back after Sol Campbell warns fans Euro 2012 co-hosts Ukraine has hit back after former England defender Sol Campbell warned fans not to travel to the tournament next month. In a BBC Panorama programme, Campbell advised supporters to stay at home because of the threat of racism and violence. But Ukraine's Euro 2012 director Markian Lubkivsky said Campbell's remarks were "insolent". "We are getting ready for the great football festival," Lubkivsky said. "To be honest, from the Uefa point of view, I don't see any dangers for citizens of different nationalities to stay in Ukraine." Continue reading the main story Oleg Voloshyn Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman The BBC documentary investigated violence and racism at football matches in Ukraine and Poland. Theo Walcott's family have revealed they will not be travelling to the tournament because of their concerns about racism. And Campbell believes Uefa should not have chosen the countries as hosts of such a prestigious event in the first place. "I think that they were wrong, because what they should say is that 'if you want this tournament, you sort your problems out'," said the former Arsenal and Tottenham player. But Lubkivsky said visiting fans to Ukraine had nothing to worry about. He said: "If the player Campbell has such a vision, than it is his own point of view, and it can not be projected for the whole country. "His statement is simply insolent for us and we do not understand the aim of it." Former Chelsea striker Andriy Shevchenko says there is "no real problem" with racism in Ukraine. And Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman Oleg Voloshyn said fans had nothing to fear. "Nazi symbols can be seen at ... any match in England, but does it mean that fans should not come to London for the Olympics?," he said. They really are talking a load of shite and that end quote sums it up for me. I have never seen a Nazi symbol at an English football ground in my 28 years of existence. I'm sure there are a couple that pop up, as there would be in any country. Yet to make out they can be seen regularly is complete bollocks. I hope the FA respond to this comment as it's simply not true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I watched the Panorama program, and Ukranian fans seemed to do the nazi salute but at least some of them had just couple fingers pointing forward, and rest clenched...isn't nazi salute suppose to be done with open palm? And on another note, they should stop using those ridiculous dubbers, and use subtitles instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjames333 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I have never seen a Nazi symbol at an English football ground in my 28 years of existence. I'm sure there are a couple that pop up, as there would be in any country Sadly the only time I recall this happening was Bosnich at Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 30, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 30, 2012 The above attempt at deflection from those in the Ukraine is as pathetic as it is predictable, its clearly not true as everyone knows. We do though have our own issues in our domestic game to resolve following several incidents this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteEndRob Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I can't see there being much trouble inside the stadiums at Euro 2012. Security will be extra tight plus they will be filled with corporate FIFA/UEFA suits and the majority of the fans will be from whatever two countries are playing. From what I read, a lot of Polish and Ukraine natives have been priced out anyway. My view is that inside the stadiums will be fine but the streets, bars etc is a totally different story! I've been to Poland (Warsaw & Lublin) and you can just tell that it is proper dodgy. I was dj-ing over there, I've experienced the nightlife. Trouble awaits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 30, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 30, 2012 Comical Alikov. Complete and utter delusion and wanton ignorance which will end in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 At least John Terry will fit in over there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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