Morpheus Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 CI, did you see them shitting themselves with Given injured? Every day their was a news report on it in Ireland, he is massive for them, a major reason why there at the Euro's in the first place. In hindsight its easy for everyone to say he shouldn't have played, just like Ronaldo shouldn't have in 98, but it happens. I suppose along with Keane he is a ROI talisman but a half fit Given is still better than the ROI number two keeper and thats why he is playing. His lack of fitness however has been more exposed due to ROI woeful defending! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2012 If you know you are only10% fit you do not play I cannot believe he's come out with that That's very easy to say from the outside looking in. However, he's 36 and at the end of his international career. He's travelled with the squad and worked bloody hard to try and get himself through the injury he picked up. He's been pretty instrumental in getting Ireland to the tournament. The whole squad (and the country, really) are holding their breath to see if you can play. The manager, player and medical staff all agree it's touch and go. But he can stand and kick. With painkilling injections, he can play. He's not perfect, far from it, but the manager asks him to play because, on balance, an unfit Shay Given is still better (at present) than a fit Kieron Westwood in terms of ability and the effect on team morale. Given is the most senior player in the squad. 120+ caps. He's seen by everyone (except Robbie Keane) as a better leader than Robbie Keane. His manager asked him to play and you don't say no to playing for your country in an international tournament. Which is all fair comment, however as a supporter of Villa and not Ireland my view is that if only 10% fit (I've no idea how people put a percentage on fitness) he shouldn't be playing. He is contracted to and paid by Villa not the ROI and while I understand his desire to play as a supporter of Villa I can't say that I think he has done the right thing, I would be very surprised if the club thought so either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaztonVilla Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Which is all fair comment, however as a supporter of Villa and not Ireland my view is that if only 10% fit (I've no idea how people put a percentage on fitness) he shouldn't be playing. He is contracted to and paid by Villa not the ROI and while I understand his desire to play as a supporter of Villa I can't say that I think he has done the right thing, I would be very surprised if the club thought so either. That's fair enough, but I suppose it depends on whether he is likely to jeopardise his fitness by playing? If, like I said, he's able to stand, kick and jump around as goalkeepers do but is still feeling pain and his decision-making or reaction time suffers then why would AVFC be effected? EDIT to say: Perhaps it's worked out better for AVFC this way.. Ireland knocked out after 2 games. Third game RD and SG are unlikely to play, so their recovery/rehabilitation time is increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 He's not been great these last couple of games but people are over reacting massively. He's a brilliant keeper. He's getting on of course and I wouldn't mind getting another keeper in that can challenge for the number 1 spot, but we should definitely keep him. he's a brilliant shot stopper, he's not a brilliant keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 10% fit ?? You simply do not play This isn't FM and fitness isn't measured in percentages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2012 If, like I said, he's able to stand, kick and jump around as goalkeepers do but is still feeling pain and his decision-making or reaction time suffers then why would AVFC be effected? If a player is 10% fit (to use the figure previously quoted) then they shouldn't be playing because they run a greater risk of an unrelated injury. If a player is that lacking in fitness I struggle to see how they can move in the same way they normally would and that is going to cause problems or could cause problems. It is fairly normal for club managers to take a dim view of international teams using their players when anything less than 100% so if Given is as unfit as being suggested then you would expect people at Villa to be livid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaztonVilla Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 If, like I said, he's able to stand, kick and jump around as goalkeepers do but is still feeling pain and his decision-making or reaction time suffers then why would AVFC be effected? If a player is 10% fit (to use the figure previously quoted) then they shouldn't be playing because they run a greater risk of an unrelated injury. If a player is that lacking in fitness I struggle to see how they can move in the same way they normally would and that is going to cause problems or could cause problems. It is fairly normal for club managers to take a dim view of international teams using their players when anything less than 100% so if Given is as unfit as being suggested then you would expect people at Villa to be livid. I should caveat that the 10% figure is anecdotal (is that the right word? I dunno) and not likely to be scientific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted June 15, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 15, 2012 Surely being 10% fit you would struggle to get out of bed? He would have to gain at least another 5% to make it out the front door! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Surely being 10% fit you would struggle to get out of bed? He would have to gain at least another 5% to make it out the front door! If you break 2 arms and a leg, I'd say you'd be 25% fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 "10% fit", Givens words not mine Totally unprofessional of him to play if he felt 90% unfit The professional thing is to let Westwood play and not selfishly cling onto the prestige / limelight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaib2004 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Who's to begrudge a 36 year old Goalkeeper at probably his last tournament, who has been a quality goalkeeper all his career, the chance to play through the pain. **** me, the first goal would have gone in with probably 99% or all keepers, Silva i can say was a bad punch so that was a mistake and he didn't do much else wrong and along the way had one of the saves of the tournament. Some people have not got a clue what they are on about. It would be the same if Joe Hart has an injury in training where he could still play, who would rather have him playing or Green or Butland... It would be Hart every day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Er nope if Hart were injured you play the back up That's why you take them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I'm a little concerned that Given was self-diagnosed as 10% fit and he was still making some good saves last night. By my reckoning I doubt he was 100% fit at any point last season, which is a concern. I say sell him and get Foster in, oh and give Dunne to QPR as part of the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Totally unprofessional if playing while 10% fit !! Let the reserve keeper have a look in shay I agree with this. There were shades of Packie Bonner against Holland in '94 about Shay last night. The problem is that Shay is determined to play every game for Ireland when really Trap should have put him in for the qualifiers only. If he's even close to fit he will play even in friendlies, so Ireland rarely have given their reserve keepers a run out, which is why everyone is so desperate for Shay to be fit. Trap should have made sure Westwood got as many games under his belt before the Euros rather than letting Shay top up his caps count. That way we would have been happier for him to come in against Croatia to give Shay more time to prepare for Spain and Italy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaib2004 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Er nope if Hart were injured you play the back up That's why you take them I guarantee if Hart had an injury where he could still play, he would be the one playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Personally dont care what he does or doesn't do for Ireland. I hope we get rid this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Doesn't look very fit here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 thought he did OK last night made 3 or 4 saves to keep score respectable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Looks like something Jim Leighton used to wear. They don't appear to have got any of the strips right this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 QPR are said to be in talks with ROb Green, so I think we can start to discount this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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