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Gay Marriage


CrackpotForeigner

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I also hope that this will be one those things people will look back on in the future and be amazed at how closed minded some of our generation were towards it, just like interracial marriages not so long ago.

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why is it different to two women though?

I understand when people say they relate to fathers and mothers in different ways and they have concerns on that score, but in and of itself, people who are adopted would feel the same in any alien environment, like with hetero's adopting - it would be the same wouldn't it?

Anyway, though, as said, from a young enough age, people accept what they grow up around in as normal, and if it's in loving family environment with good parents they will be fine, I think.

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Isn't what the kid wants the most important thing? As a kid I'm certain I would have been capable of choosing my favoured and thus the best place for me, even at a very young age. I'm quite sure I would have chosen a lesbian couple every day over two gay men or a traditional heterosexual couple if I would ever have been in that position.

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But that's the attitude that has to change. Not long ago, you could have said the same about mixed-race kids.

The only reason the mixed race attitude changed is because there is more mixed race kids in the schools than white kids. I'd imagine the white kids get bullied for being white these days.

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That's not true at all in my experience, speaking as a white man with mixed race children who go to school. Maybe it an age thing, but at the moment (primary age) race just isnt an issue as all the kids just see each other as people rather than as part of an ethnic group.

I'd imagine the same is true of anybody with adopted gay parents too, though again I admit that might all change once kids start hitting puberty and become horrible little bastards.

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I admit that might all change once kids start hitting puberty and become horrible little bastards.

Thats the point i missed out in my post. It's secondry school where it all starts.

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Most kids get bullied at school anyway regardless of whether your parents are straight or gay. It's simple enough for me. The only people who should be allowed to adopt children are the ones who will raise them in a safe and loving environment. There are plenty of kids out there with straight parents who aren't raised in this way.

Suggesting that gay men aren't fit to raise children is a sweeping judgement. Until we stop judging people on the colour of their skin or their sexual preference and realise that everyone is an individual and should be judged on their own merit then these sorts of prejudices are just going to be passed on into the next generation and nothing will ever progress.

It all comes down to stereotyping really. When most people think of gay men, they immediately think of camp gay men. There are plenty of gay men who behave normally and you would never guess that they were homosexual. This is why people like Louis Spence piss me off because they just further the stereotype of gays being ridiculously camp and over the top. I have a couple of gay friends and they're the nicest and most normal guys you'll ever meet.

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I admit that might all change once kids start hitting puberty and become horrible little bastards.

Thats the point i missed out in my post. It's secondry school where it all starts.

It's a valid point, I see what you mean, but it just seems a minor issue to me; denying people the chance to love, raise and care for a child on the off chance they might get picked on later in life.

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As a genuine question and not some clever trap for those that are uncomfortable with the gay dad's scenario:

what exactly would be the problem?

is the worry that gays may be paedo's? Or that you can be turned gay against your nature? Or that you will be messed up for not being a standard nuclear unit? Or some other point I'm missing? It surely can't be that you don't think it would sit right with God? I'm one of those religious types and I don't see the connection there.

I've got a couple of gay friends (that's such a cronically pathetic start to a sentence). As it happens the female friend is a psycho and would not make a good mum, regardless of sexuality she's so stressed about everything it would be properly bad. I've got a male friend that would be the best dad, he's single, inherited a comfortable amount of money, lots of spare time and passionate about outdoor sports. He must be godfather to half the kids I know and I'm pretty confident he could recite all their birthdays.

Sexuality and raising children really don't relate. Sexual mores and being around kids - that's another story and I'd guess the stats would say the main abusers are 'straight' 'traditional' blood relatives.

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kids get bullied for all sorts of reasons. You can't deny people from having a child because they may or may not be bullied. Besides, that is a wider issue, the problem is not the gay couple adopting a child, but the idiots who won't accept it and raise children to be just as bigoted.

Also, a lot of posts in this thread highlight how people, wheter they admit it or not, struggle to move away from the nuclear family. If we have learnt anything over the past 50+ years, it's that gender roles have changed, and we've become interchangeable. Many people still see women as mothers and men as providers, but that too has changed and will continue to do so, as men and women change too. A simple example would be how you are with your own kids, compared to how your parents were with you. We are changing, society is changing, and we shouldn't cling on to the old, rigid ideals which are slowly dying on their arse.

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Congratulations Wiggy and Eames!!! When is the big da........... oh sorry only read the title :winkold:

Its touch and go at the moment.

Had no idea Wiggy would be such a bridezilla

man-in-wedding-dress1_20090923_1641437336.jpg

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kids get bullied for all sorts of reasons. You can't deny people from having a child because they may or may not be bullied. Besides, that is a wider issue, the problem is not the gay couple adopting a child, but the idiots who won't accept it and raise children to be just as bigoted.

Also, a lot of posts in this thread highlight how people, wheter they admit it or not, struggle to move away from the nuclear family. If we have learnt anything over the past 50+ years, it's that gender roles have changed, and we've become interchangeable. Many people still see women as mothers and men as providers, but that too has changed and will continue to do so, as men and women change too. A simple example would be how you are with your own kids, compared to how your parents were with you. We are changing, society is changing, and we shouldn't cling on to the old, rigid ideals which are slowly dying on their arse.

Good post

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Congratulations Wiggy and Eames!!! When is the big da........... oh sorry only read the title :winkold:

Its touch and go at the moment.

Had no idea Wiggy would be such a bridezilla

man-in-wedding-dress1_20090923_1641437336.jpg

Wiggy looks good. Has he lost a few pounds for the wedding photos?

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the civilized world is moving on and it's time for the stick in the muds to move with it. the prohibitions and fears are rooted in cultural attitudes shaped by RELIGION and lack of understanding.

We have known that some have genetic predispositions to same sex attraction for some time now, only those who refuse to acknowledge this are really up in arms about this. I have radically changed my position over this over the years.

If one doesn't like gay marriage, one had better not marry a gay person.

Some traditional marriages are repulsively abusive and create monsters through faulty upbringing and repressive attitudes.

The definition of "normal" needs to be re-evaluated in a big way.

Bullying is and will be an issue but it is being stamped on everywhere you look with campaigns and public awareness initiatives. Once gay marriage enjoys broadbased support (1 generation away in my opinion) the bullying will dissipate, the example of mixed marriages being a good one that a previous poster brought up, one doesn't often see kids being bullied for being the progeny of a mixed couple nowadays does one?

The word needs to move on and emerge from the bronze age religions and their built in prejudices pronto.

Gay marriage isn't anywhere near the threat to the civilized world that dogmatic, monotheistic religion is with its legalism and archaic prohibitions.

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Chris Rock said it best:

"We can't have gay marriage 'cause marriage is sacred, it happens in the church. Marriage is sacred, it's sacred. No, it's not, not in America, not in a country that watches Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire? and The Bachelor and The Bachelorette and Who Wants to Marry a Midget. Get the **** outta here. Shit, Michael Jackson got married, how **** sacred is that shit? Gay people got a right to be as miserable as everybody else."

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