kurtsimonw Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Why is Mcdonald his mate coming out with any support in the media. He got away with the crime, Ched didn't. If anyone, surely if not convicted and innocent he is the best witness to this crime, I still cannot understand why they feel they do not see his part as rape, since then she was probably more intoxicated and it was McDonald who lead her to the hotel?? She herself said she was "only tipsy", therefore surely not being too drunk to consent? Or is "tipsy" considered too drunk? Where is the line drawn? Also said she had "no recollection of the night since leaving her friends". She stumbled in to McDonald outside after leaving her friends. If she has no recollection of this, how can it be deemed that she gave consent to McDoland (when she is likely at her drunkest) and not Evans (when she will have begun to sober up)? And since when does tipsy = blacking out an entire night? Also, on the "too drunk to consent" stuff. Is everyone here saying they've never slept with a bird who had a lot to drink on a night? Or maybe, if they hadn't, how much had you had to drink? If either's happened, you're a rapist or have been raped. Which is quite clearly stupid. Edited January 10, 2015 by kurtsimonw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Why is Mcdonald his mate coming out with any support in the media. He got away with the crime, Ched didn't. If anyone, surely if not convicted and innocent he is the best witness to this crime, I still cannot understand why they feel they do not see his part as rape, since then she was probably more intoxicated and it was McDonald who lead her to the hotel?? She herself said she was "only tipsy", therefore surely not being too drunk to consent? Or is "tipsy" considered too drunk? Where is the line drawn? Also said she had "no recollection of the night since leaving her friends". She stumbled in to McDonald outside after leaving her friends. If she has no recollection of this, how can it be deemed that she gave consent to McDoland (when she is likely at her drunkest) and not Evans (when she will have begun to sober up)? And since when does tipsy = blacking out an entire night? Also, on the "too drunk to consent" stuff. Is everyone here saying they've never slept with a bird who had a lot to drink on a night? Or maybe, if they hadn't, how much had you had to drink? If either's happened, you're a rapist or have been raped. Which is quite clearly stupid. This is what I was getting at with my previous post. You could quite easily have a one stand with a drunk/tipsy girl (who hasn't?) who blatently knows what she is doing. Then possibly through huge regret, it could quite easily turn into a rape charge next day, specially if she knows you have some doe. Scary isn't it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I suppose my main issue is this "too drunk to consent" stuff. First of all, how do you define what drunk is? Then everyone needs to consume different amounts of alcohol to reach that stage. How do you define what that is for each person? How does the accused know if you are "too drunk" or not? Especially if that person has been drinking too, people around you seem less drunk anyway. Then you obviously have the issue of time, how can you determine how drunk someone was at a certain time? I have a mate who goes out and gets smashed every week and 9 times out of 10 has a girl go back with him. In the eyes of the law he's getting raped every week, is he not? Absolute madness IMO. With that said, if you're convicted, you're convicted. I have no problem with what Ched has done since as 1) He has done his time, 2) he has a right to work and 3) If he believes he's innocent, why shouldn't he fight it? Edited January 10, 2015 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I have been pretty wasted at times leaving my memory 'sketchy', I have never list an entire period of time from memory. Especially when something as 'dramatic' as what is alleged here has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Why is Mcdonald his mate coming out with any support in the media. He got away with the crime, Ched didn't. If anyone, surely if not convicted and innocent he is the best witness to this crime, I still cannot understand why they feel they do not see his part as rape, since then she was probably more intoxicated and it was McDonald who lead her to the hotel?? She herself said she was "only tipsy", therefore surely not being too drunk to consent? Or is "tipsy" considered too drunk? Where is the line drawn? Also said she had "no recollection of the night since leaving her friends". She stumbled in to McDonald outside after leaving her friends. If she has no recollection of this, how can it be deemed that she gave consent to McDoland (when she is likely at her drunkest) and not Evans (when she will have begun to sober up)? And since when does tipsy = blacking out an entire night? Also, on the "too drunk to consent" stuff. Is everyone here saying they've never slept with a bird who had a lot to drink on a night? Or maybe, if they hadn't, how much had you had to drink? If either's happened, you're a rapist or have been raped. Which is quite clearly stupid. It is, but that's because you've completely misunderstood the difference between McDonald's verdict and Evans' verdict. She spent time with the former, voluntarily got into a cab with him and voluntarily went to a hotel room with him. So there is a basis to the possibility of reasonable belief on McDonald's part. Hence his acquittal. This is far more in line with your "everyone here" scenario. She had never met the latter before. Never spoken to him, not agreed to go to any hotel room with him. He just received a text message, diverted to the hotel and got stuck in. Assuming that the jury accepted that she was too drunk to consent, there is no basis for reasonable belief on his part that she would consent. Hence his conviction. The latter scenario, I would hope is not in line with what you expect "everyone here" to be getting up to of a weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Yeah not sure why some keep forgetting what he actually did. Completely different to taking a girl home that's had too much to drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The latter scenario, I would hope is not in line with what you expect "everyone here" to be getting up to of a weekend.Eh? Where did I say I expect that's what everyone here does of a weekend? If I said "can everyone here tell me they've played in La Liga?" Does that mean I assume everyone here has played in La Liga? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Ched Evans right to appeal granted Ched Evans' rape conviction goes to appeal court 38 minutes ago From the sectionWales Image copyrightNorth Wales PoliceFootballer Ched Evans is to have his rape conviction reviewed by the Court of Appeal. The Wales football international was jailed for five years in 2012 after being found guilty of raping a 19-year-old woman at a hotel near Rhyl. Evans, 26, was released last year after serving half of his sentence. The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) referred the conviction after his lawyers lodged fresh evidence. The body said it had carried out a 10-month investigation into the case and referred it based on new information which was not raised at trial. Evans, a former Sheffield United player, has always maintained his innocence but his attempts to restart his career with Oldham Athletic and his former club collapsed in the face of a public outcry. He sought leave to appeal following his conviction, which was dismissed in November 2012. Richard Foster, chairman of the CCRC, said: "The decision of the commission is not a judgment on guilt of innocence in relation to Ched Evans, nor is it a judgment about the honesty or integrity of the victim or any other person involved in the case. 'Victim kept informed' "Our role is to consider applications to see if, in our judgment, there is any basis on which to ask the court to hear a fresh appeal - that is our statutory responsibility. "In this case we have identified new material which was not considered by the jury at trial and which in our view might have assisted the defence. In those circumstances, it is right and proper for the matter to be before the court so that they can decide whether or not the new information should affect the verdict in this case." In its statement, the CCRC said it was very aware of the impact its decisions can have for victims of crimes and stressed the anonymity guaranteed by law for the victim in this case. It said: "We have been particularly mindful of the targeted abuse suffered by the victim in this case and have sought to act accordingly. "Since this application arrived in July 2014, we have been careful to keep her informed about stages of the commission's review so that, as far as it has been in our power to do so, she has learned about developments in the case from us rather than from any other source." Utterly depressing tbh. If he's innocent then fair enough - but I worry the impact an aquittal will have on other women who are too drunk to consent and then don't receive justice on the basis of some "Ched Evans defence" case law. Edited October 5, 2015 by Eames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I think he is innocent. Don't think he'd be pushing this hard only to be found out as a fraud especially now that he is trying to re-establish himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Except that for a public figure its probably the second worst thing to be guilty of? If the Court of Appeal say he's innocent then that is what he is - but I do worry about the message such a high profile verdict will be interpreted by the hordes of mindless idiots who seem to equate "being too drunk to consent" with "she didn't say no" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I think he is innocent. Don't think he'd be pushing this hard only to be found out as a fraud especially now that he is trying to re-establish himself. I don't think he understands what rape is, that is why he is appealing. I geniunely think in his mind, that walking in on his mate having a go at some paralytic women that deciding ' I will have some of that' is perfectly acceptable. Scumbag of the highest order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Her story was all over the place, would be shocked if Evans isn't found innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Almost as if she was really really drunk and couldnt remember what happened to her? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 While not defending him at all, would it not be easier now for him to get a club since Sunderland have no problem playing Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 While not defending him at all, would it not be easier now for him to get a club since Sunderland have no problem playing JohnsonJohnson is still pre-trial and therefore innocent. Ched is a convicted rapist. World of difference there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I think he is innocent. Don't think he'd be pushing this hard only to be found out as a fraud especially now that he is trying to re-establish himself. Yes I always thought he was too. But we shall see if the new evidence is enough to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It quite astounds my how many people don't understand what the law is and what rape is. I also think a lot of people want him to be found innocent because they're worried about their own sexual practices. The I think his innocent brigade are really starting to do my head in...not that I think either way, I just trust our judicial system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 While not defending him at all, would it not be easier now for him to get a club since Sunderland have no problem playing Johnson Johnson is still pre-trial and therefore innocent. Ched is a convicted rapist. World of difference there.Johnson is already a Sunderland player and being paid so they have decided they cannot afford to leave him out. Ched is without a club so its very different to offering a convicted rapist a contract.You could also argue that Ched has nothing to lose by appealing over and over. An innocent verdict really is his only hope of getting back into football.I've not followed the story that closely but do recall her looking reasonably sober on CCTV arriving at the hotel. If she says she was too drunk to know what was going on then its not quite so straight forward. If they had been carrying her in then I think it would be far simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 It quite astounds my how many people don't understand what the law is and what rape is. I also think a lot of people want him to be found innocent because they're worried about their own sexual practices. The I think his innocent brigade are really starting to do my head in...not that I think either way, I just trust our judicial system.I don't, there have been too many miscarriages of justice to trust it. No system is ever 100% fullproof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thevillanofoz Posted October 6, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted October 6, 2015 It quite astounds my how many people don't understand what the law is and what rape is. I also think a lot of people want him to be found innocent because they're worried about their own sexual practices. The I think his innocent brigade are really starting to do my head in...not that I think either way, I just trust our judicial system.I don't, there have been too many miscarriages of justice to trust it. No system is ever 100% fullproofNot it when it comes to rape - let's look at the stats for a second - the convictions for rape are minuscule, I think it's something like 1 in ten for prosecuted cases if that. The evidence has to be pretty overwhelming to get a conviction. Just to be clear if your mate takes someone home, you can't join in unless both of them invite you - not have a pop at an almost passed out girl on the bed. That is rape, it's not the same as getting pissed with someone down the pub, going home with them and having a drunken roll around, which you probably both regret in the morning.Secondly can I just put paid to this myth of women crying rape because they 'regret' spending the night with somebody. I and most of my friends have all had silly one night stands where we thought jeez what was I thinking, but it was consensual. Most of us have also been the victim of some sort of sexual assault. From a quick grope on a train to a full blown assault. How many got reported to the police? 1. Why? Because reporting sexual assault to the police is an ordeal in itself, and most women just want to get on with their lives. And if the apologists for Evans knew more women a little better, you would be horrified at how prevalent it is and how rarely it gets reported.Is is he guilty, yes. Does he think he is, no of course not, prison is full of innocent men. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts