VillaChris Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It's about time he started denouncing the people who are revealing the victim's location and continually forcing here to move around the U.K. Disgusting. Not helped by that appeal website the Massey family have got up imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It's about time he started denouncing the people who are revealing the victim's location and continually forcing here to move around the U.K. Disgusting. It doesn't make it all okay, but he has done so today in pretty unequivocal terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Yes I know I read the statement. He should've said it when it happened a good six weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 8, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2015 It's about time he started denouncing the people who are revealing the victim's location and continually forcing here to move around the U.K. Disgusting. It doesn't make it all okay, but he has done so today in pretty unequivocal terms. More than a little too late. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 No disagreement here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 He is neither a free man, nor has he completed his sentence. He is out of prison under licence and will serve the remainder of his sentence under probation. Nobody is denying him his right to work, only his right to continue playing professional football. Maybe he should start thinking about an alternative career? I think he's going to find it difficult to be employed by anybody because of the fact everybody knows he's a convicted rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 He is neither a free man, nor has he completed his sentence. He is out of prison under licence and will serve the remainder of his sentence under probation. Nobody is denying him his right to work, only his right to continue playing professional football. Maybe he should start thinking about an alternative career? I think he's going to find it difficult to be employed by anybody because of the fact everybody knows he's a convicted rapist. So maybe rather that trying to pick up where he left off as if nothing had happened and jump straight back into the highly-privileged world of professional football, he could try to win people over a little by starting with something a little more humble, or even doing some voluntary work. Whether he claims he's innocent our not, the fact remains that he was convicted of the crime and if he wants to start putting it behind him he should show some willing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You know the way around that Makeminevanilla, dont rape anyone. Also regarding the threats made to Oldham employees families, I read somewhere that it didnt actually happen, once I find the link I will edit this. That is not as easy as it sounds because the definition of rape has changed and it will continue to change. (1) Once it has been established that an intoxicated woman is not in possession of full moral agency, then even if she gives consent, a court could decide she was raped. (2) Feminist groups are campaigning to broaden the definition of rape, to include cases where women agree to sex based on the assumption that the man is richer than he actually turns out to be, or makes false promises. (3) Young men need to be educated as to the reality and the big lesson to be learned from the Ched Evans case, is don't have sex with a woman who has had a drink. (4) But the safest course society can to take, is to hand the responsibility of initiating dating and sex, to women. 1 - You say this like it's a bad thing. It's a few short decades since a time when it was considered a married woman couldn't be a rape victim if her husband was the perpetrator. The definition of rape is changing all the time, and generally in a good way. Sex should be enthusiastic and consensual. 2 - The law does not suggest that people who are intoxicated have no moral agency (if you kill someone in a drunken rage, you still go to prison for murder). The law does suggest that beyond a certain point of intoxication, a person cannot give informed consent to a sexual act. This protects paralytically-drunk people from being sexually assaulted. It's a good thing. Both the jury in the original criminal trial, and the appeal court judge, felt that the woman concerned was in fact in this state of intoxication. 3 - Links please. Some evidence of this assertion. 4 - A ludicrous lesson. A better lesson would be, 'don't have sex with a woman who is already prone, doesn't know who you are and is hugely intoxicated'. Frankly I would hope everyone reading this already follows that advice. You have no intention of changing your mind and I have no intention of making an attempt. So, thanks, but no thanks! That's fine, no worries. Just so we're crystal though, don't expect me to simply stop responding to your posts - you aren't the only intended audience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 What's the point in having a legal system and a system for the way punishments are handled if the public are going to carry out their own form of "justice". I in no way condone what he's been judged to have done. But to force him out of his profession in this way is embarrassing. If he were a sales assistant at Top Shop, would they receive the same "sanctions" and threats? Why should it be different because he's a footballer? And where does this "precedent" leave us? If I was to lose my driving licence for whatever reason, after my suspension was served, could I be facing an angry mob outside my house attempting to prevent me from using a car? This is easy to answer. There is no way Top Shop would ever consider employing a convicted rapist in the first place. Oldham and Sheff Utd's behaviour has been massively mercenary. Ched Evans presents them with the opportunity to acquire a valuable asset at a very reduced prices. Get him in, give him a few games, he scores goals.... they sell for considerably more than he signed for. The trade off is that you have to accept some bad PR up front. That is why it is different. Ched Evans could find employment anywhere, he WAS a footballer, he doesn't HAVE to be a footballer. Top Shop sales assistants with rape convictions, no matter how competent aren't going to find themselves sold to Next in 3 years time for several million pounds whilst earning £ks a week in the process. Justice for Ched Evans would be him finishing his legal challenges to his conviction, completing his sentence as per the terms of his licence and then struggling to find employment just like every other convicted rapist in the UK. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 My belief and to what I have read/studied about his case, is he seems to have been charged on very basic evidence. His solicitor didn't really seem very detailed in what actually happened and made many errors to support Ched's statement and as I said I think he was a public figure which the court wanted to make an example off. I always think and worry that us men who have had a one night stand, or the like, may have been in this situation or another, where we could have got in the shit through, not rape, but more regret the next day (as in this case) from the consenting female. Maybe I don't know enough to make this sort of opinion, so ofcourse take it as personal speculation rather than stating any facts. There are two factors elevate Evan's conviction from a "his word against hers" situation. 1) The "I've got a bird" text which has been used by the prosecution to show that the intention was to acquire a female for the purpose of sex all along and 2) The fact his mates filmed it laughing all the way and then Ched himself leaving via the fire escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think discussing the case is totally irrelevant and diverts attention away from the real issue: the determination of feminist campaigners to disbar him from his profession. He was found guilty and he has served a sentence the judge considered suitable for his crime. It has to be remembered that rape carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment and the judge felt that his crime deserved five years. He is not considered a danger to the public or likely to repeat the offence. It is from this point that the determination to disbar him from his profession should be judged. If his profession was concerned with women it would not be right to allow him to return to his job but football is overwhelmingly a male space, which feminists constantly point out. This is really the crux. Militant political feminists hate football because they consider it one of the last bastions of male privilege and this is why they have chosen to target Evans because they wish to gain influence and funding in an area they have so far failed to find traction in. I do not believe that the women who have led the campaign actually like football or have any affiliation with either Sheffield United or Oldham. I believe they are just opportunistic feminists who have mobilised other global feminists to swell the numbers on their petitions and, as might be expected, the media have presented the numbers as if they represent a consensus of the UK football fraternity. I don't believe there are 160 000 UK football fans who are determined to disbar Ched Evans. The feminist lobby has succeeded in turning the NFL into a circus and they are looking for a similar victory in association football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If his profession was concerned with women it would not be right to allow him to return to his job but football is overwhelmingly a male space, which feminists constantly point out. Militant political feminists hate football because they consider it one of the last bastions of male privilege and this is why they have chosen to target Evans because they wish to gain influence and funding in an area they have so far failed to find traction in. I do not believe that the women who have led the campaign actually like football or have any affiliation with either Sheffield United or Oldham. I believe they are just opportunistic feminists who have mobilised other global feminists to swell the numbers on their petitions and, as might be expected, the media have presented the numbers as if they represent a consensus of the UK football fraternity. The feminist lobby has succeeded in turning the NFL into a circus and they are looking for a similar victory in association football. You dont like women do you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If his profession was concerned with women it would not be right to allow him to return to his job but football is overwhelmingly a male space, which feminists constantly point out. Militant political feminists hate football because they consider it one of the last bastions of male privilege and this is why they have chosen to target Evans because they wish to gain influence and funding in an area they have so far failed to find traction in. I do not believe that the women who have led the campaign actually like football or have any affiliation with either Sheffield United or Oldham. I believe they are just opportunistic feminists who have mobilised other global feminists to swell the numbers on their petitions and, as might be expected, the media have presented the numbers as if they represent a consensus of the UK football fraternity. The feminist lobby has succeeded in turning the NFL into a circus and they are looking for a similar victory in association football. You dont like women do you. You don't have much to say, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If his profession was concerned with women it would not be right to allow him to return to his job but football is overwhelmingly a male space, which feminists constantly point out. Militant political feminists hate football because they consider it one of the last bastions of male privilege and this is why they have chosen to target Evans because they wish to gain influence and funding in an area they have so far failed to find traction in. I do not believe that the women who have led the campaign actually like football or have any affiliation with either Sheffield United or Oldham. I believe they are just opportunistic feminists who have mobilised other global feminists to swell the numbers on their petitions and, as might be expected, the media have presented the numbers as if they represent a consensus of the UK football fraternity. The feminist lobby has succeeded in turning the NFL into a circus and they are looking for a similar victory in association football. You dont like women do you. You don't have much to say, do you? OK, I disagree with you entirely, your arguments seem paranoid and outdated. You have wrongly assumed that this is a feminist agenda when a great deal of men see what Ched Evans has done as a reason not to have him in the employ of a Professional Football Club. Men see it as wrong, men have signed petitions. Men do not want a rapist at their club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 My arguments are neither paranoid or outdated. You only have to see what is happening in gender politics to understand that. The fact that some men might not want a convicted rapist at their club is not mutually exclusive with the existence of a powerful and well-organised global feminist movement. Political feminists are not to be conflated with all women because many women do not agree with the aims of militant feminists. So when I say feminist I mean political feminists not women. The two should not be confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I wonder if MakemineVanilla has a recurring nightmare about this shadowy and evil League of Feminists sitting in an old castle built in the Transylvanian mountains, discussing their plans for world domination. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 9, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 9, 2015 Just wait till he publishes The Protocols of the Elders of Doreen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 9, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 9, 2015 MMV in a thread about women (sort of)... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I wonder if MakemineVanilla has a recurring nightmare about this shadowy and evil League of Feminists sitting in an old castle built in the Transylvanian mountains, discussing their plans for world domination. No, they are to be found in Toronto, organising slut walks and phoning in bomb threats to MRA meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It's quite clear that you do actually know about these sort of issues MMV, which makes it even more uncomfortable in my eyes. Why is it you spend so much time sourcing facts about feminists? What does it matter what they're trying to do? And why do you spend a considerable amount of time on VT, talking - quite negatively in most respects - about women? Honestly mate, it's bordering on the verge of unhealthy obsession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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