nick76 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Get behind the team, yes......get behind the manager, no! I dont see how you can get behind the team without getting behind the most integral part of that team? Without a manager, we havent got a team. If people are saying that Mcliesh (i.e. the manager) and the team are two seperate aspects of AVFC, then it seems ludicrously unfair to pinpoint the blame at Mcliesh for the teams failures?? Point is, the arguement that its possible to get behind the team and not the manager is bollocks. Think many people are mistaking supporting/getting behind as singing/cheering etc, when actually, just erasing the whole 'i want you to fail' attitude that ooozes around Villa Park would go a long way imo. there is a difference between 'I want you to fail' and what I believe is 'I know you are going to fail' distinct difference and very unfair on villa fans that you state that. No villa fan wants villa to fail. How can you get behind a team without getting behind a manager......obvious....support the team emphatically when they are on the pitch! Don't care what the manager does.........just give the players as much support when they are playing, despite poor tactics, poor player formations and no idea how to adapt when circumstances change......that's how Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floody555 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Get behind the team, yes......get behind the manager, no! I dont see how you can get behind the team without getting behind the most integral part of that team? Without a manager, we havent got a team. If people are saying that Mcliesh (i.e. the manager) and the team are two seperate aspects of AVFC, then it seems ludicrously unfair to pinpoint the blame at Mcliesh for the teams failures?? Point is, the arguement that its possible to get behind the team and not the manager is bollocks. Think many people are mistaking supporting/getting behind as singing/cheering etc, when actually, just erasing the whole YES I AGREE well done some1 who's got right idea gettin behind ur team is not rallying up a few idiots and slagging off the club! when i say club i mean anything to do with Aston Villa weather it be players, manager or Chairman it just doesn't help the situation. We need to get behind the team and make sure we're in this league nxt season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Get behind the team, yes......get behind the manager, no! I dont see how you can get behind the team without getting behind the most integral part of that team? Without a manager, we havent got a team. If people are saying that Mcliesh (i.e. the manager) and the team are two seperate aspects of AVFC, then it seems ludicrously unfair to pinpoint the blame at Mcliesh for the teams failures?? Point is, the arguement that its possible to get behind the team and not the manager is bollocks. Think many people are mistaking supporting/getting behind as singing/cheering etc, when actually, just erasing the whole YES I AGREE well done some1 who's got right idea gettin behind ur team is not rallying up a few idiots and slagging off the club! when i say club i mean anything to do with Aston Villa weather it be players, manager or Chairman it just doesn't help the situation. We need to get behind the team and make sure we're in this league nxt season! this is why people are protesting....your words sum it up....our aim is just to stay up...how far have we dropped???? That this is our aim! But let's not do anything about it, let's accept this is our aim and back an incompetent manager that might or might not achieve this aim.....let's accept that! I'm so angry that what it has come down to and some of us aren't happy with that and hence the protest. And we aren't slagging the club off as you say we are saying we are not happy and we want change. That is not slagging the club off it's voicing our opinion because we want the long term benefit of the club. Accepting the current situation in my mind is far worse than protesting, it's accepting our goal is to try and stay in the league as you say.....that's not my aim and shouldn't be villa's aim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Get behind the team, yes......get behind the manager, no! I dont see how you can get behind the team without getting behind the most integral part of that team? Without a manager, we havent got a team. If people are saying that Mcliesh (i.e. the manager) and the team are two seperate aspects of AVFC, then it seems ludicrously unfair to pinpoint the blame at Mcliesh for the teams failures?? Point is, the arguement that its possible to get behind the team and not the manager is bollocks. Think many people are mistaking supporting/getting behind as singing/cheering etc, when actually, just erasing the whole 'i want you to fail' attitude that ooozes around Villa Park would go a long way imo. there is a difference between 'I want you to fail' and what I believe is 'I know you are going to fail' distinct difference and very unfair on villa fans that you state that. No villa fan wants villa to fail. How can you get behind a team without getting behind a manager......obvious....support the team emphatically when they are on the pitch! Don't care what the manager does.........just give the players as much support when they are playing, despite poor tactics, poor player formations and no idea how to adapt when circumstances change......that's how But by cheering the team on, your inadvertedly cheering the manager on imo? Hes the guy that puts them there. You mention dispite of poor tactics etc for the players. Why not support the manager in spite of poor players, better oppositions, lack of investment in the squad, limited skill level?? You know, is Mcliesh 'being shite' (not exactly my view btw) a reason not to get behind him?? Is that what we do nowadays - discourage those who arent quite good enough - and indeed not quite good enough - on the basis that a load of absolute know it alls (who in the grand scheme of things, know absolutely buggar all about running a professional football team), say he isnt. Of course the obvious answer to that is he got relegated twice so he isnt good enough! So we live in a world where nobodys allowed to improve, and learn from the mistakes they previously made? You really have got it tits about face if you refuse to support the teams manger (who you can blatently see is giving his all) and yet you support a set of overpaid players, who turn up as and when it suits their preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You may be happier and think it is a joke! I would say you are being simplistic and picking on some good points but then I could throw back loads of bad points and issues, and you dismiss some of them and I would come back with some argument and we would get nowhere apart from difference of opinion. The basic thing though that while you don't agree with the protest, other people feel they have to have their say and unfortunately a protest is the only means those people have to voice their opinions more than on a message board. You think it's a joke which is unfair on those people, you have to respect other people feel different and have some valid reasons. There will always be some idiots there as well who will obviously embarrass us but the sentiment of the protest is still valid to some villa fans. So saying it a joke is wrong, you may not agree but that is your right You're probably right, each person is entitled to their own view. My only concern is, I'm not sure what a protest will achieve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Get behind the team, yes......get behind the manager, no! I dont see how you can get behind the team without getting behind the most integral part of that team? Without a manager, we havent got a team. If people are saying that Mcliesh (i.e. the manager) and the team are two seperate aspects of AVFC, then it seems ludicrously unfair to pinpoint the blame at Mcliesh for the teams failures?? Point is, the arguement that its possible to get behind the team and not the manager is bollocks. Think many people are mistaking supporting/getting behind as singing/cheering etc, when actually, just erasing the whole 'i want you to fail' attitude that ooozes around Villa Park would go a long way imo. there is a difference between 'I want you to fail' and what I believe is 'I know you are going to fail' distinct difference and very unfair on villa fans that you state that. No villa fan wants villa to fail. How can you get behind a team without getting behind a manager......obvious....support the team emphatically when they are on the pitch! Don't care what the manager does.........just give the players as much support when they are playing, despite poor tactics, poor player formations and no idea how to adapt when circumstances change......that's how But by cheering the team on, your inadvertedly cheering the manager on imo? Hes the guy that puts them there. You mention dispite of poor tactics etc for the players. Why not support the manager in spite of poor players, better oppositions, lack of investment in the squad, limited skill level?? You know, is Mcliesh 'being shite' (not exactly my view btw) a reason not to get behind him?? Is that what we do nowadays - discourage those who arent quite good enough - and indeed not quite good enough - on the basis that a load of absolute know it alls (who in the grand scheme of things, know absolutely buggar all about running a professional football team), say he isnt. Of course the obvious answer to that is he got relegated twice so he isnt good enough! So we live in a world where nobodys allowed to improve, and learn from the mistakes they previously made? You really have got it tits about face if you refuse to support the teams manger (who you can blatently see is giving his all) and yet you support a set of overpaid players, who turn up as and when it suits their preferences. look I see what you are saying, and yes we shouldn't discourage those who aren't quite good enough but this isn't a guy I work with, a mate whose not that bright, a son whose struggling....... this is the manager who runs my team Aston Villa, we aren't a charity case! He's not good enough in my opinion and never will be.....just because he's giving it all makes no difference, he's not good enough! This is too hard! Your argument now boils down to giving people a chance even if they aren't good enough......I'm shocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You may be happier and think it is a joke! I would say you are being simplistic and picking on some good points but then I could throw back loads of bad points and issues, and you dismiss some of them and I would come back with some argument and we would get nowhere apart from difference of opinion. The basic thing though that while you don't agree with the protest, other people feel they have to have their say and unfortunately a protest is the only means those people have to voice their opinions more than on a message board. You think it's a joke which is unfair on those people, you have to respect other people feel different and have some valid reasons. There will always be some idiots there as well who will obviously embarrass us but the sentiment of the protest is still valid to some villa fans. So saying it a joke is wrong, you may not agree but that is your right You're probably right, each person is entitled to their own view. My only concern is, I'm not sure what a protest will achieveTo be honest I'm not sure, if anything, what the protest will achieve either but what i do know is doing nothing will definitely achieve nothing which is not good enough for me. The protest will probably achieve nothing but if it did make a difference then it's worthwhile in my opinion as I'm not happy with the current situation and I don't want it to continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Your argument now boils down to giving people a chance even if they aren't good enough......I'm shocked It doesnt at all. It boils down to - not jumping on their backs purely because you think hes not good enough. Especially if the person saying hes not good enough, doesnt know his arse from his elbow when it comes to being a football manager. So far we dont know if hes not good enough or not yet because hes only been there 6 months. And what exactly is good enough? Because so far hes won exactly the same as the previous managers over the past 16 years or so. **** all, albeit - but what exactly is our benchmark?? IMO, (based on the last 20 years) its inconsistent form. Hes pretty much gettin that nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 11, 2012 And what exactly is good enough? The way he has approached several games this season such as Spurs away wasn't good enough. 6 games in a row at home without a win isn't good enough. 6 wins in 24 games isn't good enough. I'm not one to protest but if I was I think I'd find plenty to protest about with McLeish and I think its quite easy to look at his performance and deem it not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Your argument now boils down to giving people a chance even if they aren't good enough......I'm shocked It doesnt at all. It boils down to - not jumping on their backs purely because you think hes not good enough. Especially if the person saying hes not good enough, doesnt know his arse from his elbow when it comes to being a football manager. So far we dont know if hes not good enough or not yet because hes only been there 6 months. And what exactly is good enough? Because so far hes won exactly the same as the previous managers over the past 16 years or so. **** all, albeit - but what exactly is our benchmark?? IMO, (based on the last 20 years) its inconsistent form. Hes pretty much gettin that nail on the head. his career as a manager to me proves he's not good enough, he should never have got the job and now he has, apart from a few spells we have been awful. That's my opinion and I know we won't agree and I respect your opinion and can see where you are coming from I just don't agree. Thanks for the debate though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Your argument now boils down to giving people a chance even if they aren't good enough......I'm shocked It doesnt at all. It boils down to - not jumping on their backs purely because you think hes not good enough. Especially if the person saying hes not good enough, doesnt know his arse from his elbow when it comes to being a football manager. So far we dont know if hes not good enough or not yet because hes only been there 6 months. And what exactly is good enough? Because so far hes won exactly the same as the previous managers over the past 16 years or so. **** all, albeit - but what exactly is our benchmark?? IMO, (based on the last 20 years) its inconsistent form. Hes pretty much gettin that nail on the head. his career as a manager to me proves he's not good enough, he should never have got the job and now he has, apart from a few spells we have been awful. That's my opinion and I know we won't agree and I respect your opinion and can see where you are coming from I just don't agree. Thanks for the debate though No worries - thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris21 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You may be happier and think it is a joke! I would say you are being simplistic and picking on some good points but then I could throw back loads of bad points and issues, and you dismiss some of them and I would come back with some argument and we would get nowhere apart from difference of opinion. The basic thing though that while you don't agree with the protest, other people feel they have to have their say and unfortunately a protest is the only means those people have to voice their opinions more than on a message board. You think it's a joke which is unfair on those people, you have to respect other people feel different and have some valid reasons. There will always be some idiots there as well who will obviously embarrass us but the sentiment of the protest is still valid to some villa fans. So saying it a joke is wrong, you may not agree but that is your right You're probably right, each person is entitled to their own view. My only concern is, I'm not sure what a protest will achieveTo be honest I'm not sure, if anything, what the protest will achieve either but what i do know is doing nothing will definitely achieve nothing which is not good enough for me. The protest will probably achieve nothing but if it did make a difference then it's worthwhile in my opinion as I'm not happy with the current situation and I don't want it to continue I commend your acknowledgement that a protest might not achieve anything and I do understand that doing nothing is like accepting defeat but I still believe that this is the wrong time. So far our results have been up and down (mainly down) but there are many many factors for this that have been gone over again and again. I also believe that if a manager other than AMC was appointed and results had gone exactly the same way then fans would not be talking about protesting and saying 'under the circumstances he has done an ok job in his first 6 months I'll give him more time'. I've stated before that I didn't want AMC as manager but that is what has happened and he will not be going anywhere. This is counterproductive and will only bring more bad publicity ensuring that the fickle preconception of villa fans is cemented !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The strange thing is, you speak to fans of other clubs and they ALL say "why the hell did they appoint McLeish, bizarre appointment" It's not like the footballing world need telling again about this by our own fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Although I support the protest. I think it might flop on sunday. However I seem to recall a failed Ellis out protest, then only months later he was gone - both Ellis then and Mcleish now have no where to go in terms of taking us forward I think a similar thing may happen here. For me we look set to bomb down the table - and Mcleish has a habbit of not finishing seasons strongly.....so bigs protests against mcleish are when not if Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I stopped reading after the "good manager like Alex McLeish" part Not sure if serious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 McLeish has got his mates in the media doing his PR work it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I can't be there but I hope that the protest is massive and that Lerner sits up and listens. Would Spurs be where they are now if everybody had said lets give that Juan de Ramos a bit more time to prove himself?? McLeish is clearly out of his depth in the Premier League and has been since he arrived at SHA. The sooner we get rid the sooner all Villa fans have the chance to hope again. Even if his replacement doesn't deliver, at least we will have had some hope for a while and we might find the man to take this club forward. 90% of us know one thing with certainty - this man is not McLeish. Good luck all that protest - you will have my support. And screw the stupid journo's who know nothing about, or feel anything in particular for, our great club. This man is cancer and has to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Mantis, can you honestly say that Mcliesh's previous role has not (at the very least) sped up embarrasing shite like this. Really, those protesting - fill ya boots. Go and make an arse of yourselves. Because no one with half a brain has a clue what on earth your protesting about. If its because your unhappy with whats happening at AVFC then football is NOT the sport for you - neither is any competitve sport foir that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Mantis, can you honestly say that Mcliesh's previous role has not (at the very least) sped up embarrasing shite like this.No. He was not wanted because he'd just been relegated with SHA (for the second time) and is known for playing horrible football. That's it. Virtually no one cares about the SHA link. On the contrary, if he was a half decent manager most fans would have loved to take him off their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Put it this way if we had pinched Hughton from blues i think we would be doing alot better than we are at the minute and nobody would give a toss that he was an ex nose manager McLeish is just not good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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