CI Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm not saying I don't empathise with Dean, just that I won't be in the queue for the inevitable book that will be in WHSmiths before too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Thing is, when people realise depression is a mental illness more people will find it easier to admit they need help and seek it asap. It's all about raising awareness With all due respect to you, I think you comparing depression with 'feeling down' a bit ignorant to be honest. Anyway, as you say, I wish him a speedy recovery Spot on. The biggest problem with depression is that it seems a lot of people don't understand it. It can't be easy to go and seek help when the general image of depression seems to be "get over it and get a grip". We can only hope people like Dean Windass, who will have a bit of media spotlight on them, coming out and admitting this kind of thing will make others do the same. Maybe you are 'just a bit down', who knows? Can't hurt seeing someone about it either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have all the sympathy in the world for people suffering depression, even more sympathy for those trying to come to terms with the loss of a loved one. I have a little less sympathy for someone who has earned more in a year than many earn in a life time and effectively pissed it all away one way or another. I have heart felt sympathy for anyone who considers suicide and my heart goes out to those who try or succeed. I have a little less sympathy for those who claim they tried it the other week and decide to tell the world via a tabloid paper who probably paid a fortune for the story. Call me cynical if you will but I can't help but feel that Windass has cashed in on the death of Speed here by selling tales of his troubles, regardless of if they are genuine or embellished. I just find it a little hard to believe that you can go from attempting suicide one week to telling the world your troubles the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Thing is, when people realise depression is a mental illness more people will find it easier to admit they need help and seek it asap. It's all about raising awareness With all due respect to you, I think you comparing depression with 'feeling down' a bit ignorant to be honest. Anyway, as you say, I wish him a speedy recovery Spot on. The biggest problem with depression is that it seems a lot of people don't understand it. It can't be easy to go and seek help when the general image of depression seems to be "get over it and get a grip". We can only hope people like Dean Windass, who will have a bit of media spotlight on them, coming out and admitting this kind of thing will make others do the same. Maybe you are 'just a bit down', who knows? Can't hurt seeing someone about it either way. But then you run the risk of the whole population making pronouncements of depression. It's bad enough getting people out to work nowadays with the various previously unknown illnesses that are now regularly diagnosed. On the subject of Windass I can't help smiling at the irony that a below average, journeyman striker who missed more often than he scored can't even 'hit the back of the net' with two attempts at suicide. Maybe I'm cruel, or maybe I'm cynical as to whether he tried at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 But then you run the risk of the whole population making pronouncements of depression. Not even sure what this is supposed to mean. If people have depression, they have depression. It's an illness. If people have symptoms of other illnesses shall they just not bother trying to get help either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 now he must get a grip and move on Aahhhhhhh right, that's how depression works then? Well done, you've fixed it for everyone. Indeed. I feel so silly now. All those nights I lay awake wishing the soil over my head, imagining myself falling every time I closed me eyes. I should have just "got a grip". Thanks. Thank you for NOT being my friend at my lowest. You'd have done me in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Have to say I can kinda say CI's point in a way. I've battled depression and been suicidal many times as well as losing both parents before the age of 30 (my dad passing 2 weeks ago) and people in the street don't get the same support and help a professional footballer or celebrity would. That's not true. I receive drugs, therapy. But they're things you have to ask for, no matter what your profession. Now that I get the support I'm better, it's fairly simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 But then you run the risk of the whole population making pronouncements of depression. Not even sure what this is supposed to mean. If people have depression, they have depression. It's an illness. If people have symptoms of other illnesses shall they just not bother trying to get help either? What it is supposed to mean is that there are people who are genuinely depressed, that require help, and there are the who may choose to feign depression to try to get a free ride. A bit like the bloke on long term sick with a bad back who plays golf every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have all the sympathy in the world for people suffering depression, even more sympathy for those trying to come to terms with the loss of a loved one. I have a little less sympathy for someone who has earned more in a year than many earn in a life time and effectively pissed it all away one way or another. I have heart felt sympathy for anyone who considers suicide and my heart goes out to those who try or succeed. I have a little less sympathy for those who claim they tried it the other week and decide to tell the world via a tabloid paper who probably paid a fortune for the story. Call me cynical if you will but I can't help but feel that Windass has cashed in on the death of Speed here by selling tales of his troubles, regardless of if they are genuine or embellished. I just find it a little hard to believe that you can go from attempting suicide one week to telling the world your troubles the next. Anything and I mean anything that brings the plight of depression forward or in this case keeps it in the eye of the public is a good thing. As someone who suffered with it for over a year at the deep end and a while longer at the shallow I wish I could tell the world about my depression. Openness and honesty are absolutely vital to recovery. Recovery is virtually impossible without it. I wish the tabloid press were interested in me but they're not. Good on Deano for getting it out there and if he made a few quid from it fair play. Every cloud! I'm surprised that someone as intelligent as you, that commands my adulation could be so ignorant Trent. Sorry mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 But then you run the risk of the whole population making pronouncements of depression. Not even sure what this is supposed to mean. If people have depression, they have depression. It's an illness. If people have symptoms of other illnesses shall they just not bother trying to get help either? What it is supposed to mean is that there are people who are genuinely depressed, that require help, and there are the who may choose to feign depression to try to get a free ride. A bit like the bloke on long term sick with a bad back who plays golf every day. To a trained professional it's not easy to fake but I take your point. I also guarantee you that any therapist worth their salty would recommend you to GO TO WORK, to live your life, as part of the healing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have all the sympathy in the world for people suffering depression, even more sympathy for those trying to come to terms with the loss of a loved one. I have a little less sympathy for someone who has earned more in a year than many earn in a life time and effectively pissed it all away one way or another. I have heart felt sympathy for anyone who considers suicide and my heart goes out to those who try or succeed. I have a little less sympathy for those who claim they tried it the other week and decide to tell the world via a tabloid paper who probably paid a fortune for the story. Call me cynical if you will but I can't help but feel that Windass has cashed in on the death of Speed here by selling tales of his troubles, regardless of if they are genuine or embellished. I just find it a little hard to believe that you can go from attempting suicide one week to telling the world your troubles the next. Anything and I mean anything that brings the plight of depression forward or in this case keeps it in the eye of the public is a good thing. As someone who suffered with it for over a year at the deep end and a while longer at the shallow I wish I could tell the world about my depression. Openness and honesty are absolutely vital to recovery. Recovery is virtually impossible without it. I wish the tabloid press were interested in me but they're not. Good on Deano for getting it out there and if he made a few quid from it fair play. Every cloud! I'm surprised that someone as intelligent as you, that commands my adulation could be so ignorant Trent. Sorry mate. I'd don't think Trent is being ignorant. Cynical - undoubtably. But I think much the same. It's not like he's telling Dean to "get a grip", he just has "a little less sympathy" for someone who's pissed away his money and sold his story to the tabloids. I think perhaps a little cynicism is no bad thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Horrible amount of cynicism in this thread. Watch the Flintoff documentary on iPlayer at the moment for an interesting look at depression in sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 17, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2012 No offence taken DDID so please don't take offence, because none is intended, when I say you simply couldn't be more wrong. I've suffered depression, I've lost two friends to suicide following depression, I've had other friends suffer depression and have helped and continue to help them through it as much as I can. I didn't though feel the need to air this in public in order to earn the right to offer my thoughts on Dean Windass and his actions but seeing as in doing so you've labelled me as being 'ignorant' I feel I have to. I'm not ignorant about depression, neither am I lacking in sympathy for those who suffer with it. Perhaps you didn't notice that until last week I had a picture of Gary Speed as my avatar? Now we don't know his death was linked to depression but it seems highly likely, if I was ignorant about depression or lacking in sympathy for its sufferers paying respect to Speed in that way would be unlikely don't you think? As it happens I always had a huge amount of respect for Speed and I knew in the days following his passing someone within the game would sooner or later cash in on selling their tale to the papers who would have all been hunting such a story. I don't doubt Windass has issues, both financial and mental health wise and I'm sympathetic towards the later if not the former which is entirely of his making. I honestly think what you read and what I posted are two very different things, as MrDuck says on the charge of being cynical I'll hold my hands up guilty as charged. But ignorant on the topic or about the subject? No I'm sorry you are very very wide of the mark. I agree with you about openness and honesty being key to recovery but I'm sorry I just don't think those stages come a week after trying and failing to top yourself. They certainly don't come in the form of an exclusive with a Sunday paper. I doubt very much Windass has donated his fee (which I assume he received) to charity has he? Now if some good comes of the Windass article and some player (or fan) seeks help rather than suffer further or take the next step then great!!! Only I doubt this will be the case and because of all these things I'm more than just a little cynical about his motives if not his experiences in this case. From where I'm standing Windass looks like a man who has pissed away a fortune and depressed or not has grabbed with both hands the opportunity to cash in and ease his problems. In doing so he may help others but he is certainly helping himself and that to me at least leaves a bit of a bad taste given what happen to Gary Speed and what might, I repeat might have caused it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 ok so this topic is becoming about depression rather than Dean so as i would say i am quite niave on the subject and i consider myself nearly too rational in my thinking. I have a friend in my group who we believe suffer from a mild depression and i try help with that best i can being the person he would turn to. would someone be able to inform me or point me in the right direction in the thoughts behind depression being an illness. i mean does that mean anyone can get it? I dont believe i will ever have this problem (maybe im wrong or you believe i could be). whats the difference between depression and being down... to me it seems in alot of cases depression is caused by things (money, opposite sex, loss of lives). I mean can a footballer loosing his money and fans causing him to be depressed be described as depression? I do not mean to offend anyone but a lack of knowledge can do that sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The former striker, now 42, admits to drinking up to 15 pints of lager a day. His 18-year marriage has collapsed after he had an affair and he is tormented by guilt because he didn't get the chance to end a rift with his father, who died suddenly. Dean is now set to go into the Sporting Chance Clinic for rehabilitation on February 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 zak, I think depression is more of a long term state. Being down can easily be turned around if something good happens. Depression is where you find yourself in a negative mood all the time, lack of interest in doing anything and you feel like you have no self worth. The latter, in my opinion, is more likely to be what Dean has an issue with. When you are a professional football you a a star and celebrity of sorts. Now he's just a 'nobody' for lack of a better word and doesn't have a job, lost his father recently and ruined his marriage.. it all adds up. I could be very wrong, but that's how I'd always thought of it. I'd suggest if you think your mate may have depression, get him to go and see somebody about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 So you believe what Dean Windass has is depression. therefor you believe he has an illness as depression is an illness. right? Im really not trying to stir anything or troll if thats the right thing to say but you see this is where i dont like the term illness. Dont get me wrong i know there are many people who are depressed as a state of mind and maybe that can be stated as an illness and i feel for those that have it, i would nearly consider myself the other way round, luckily. However Dean Windass wouldnt be depressed if these things didnt happen to him. He couldnt/cant cope, is that not different? I am nearly ignoring the fact that it looks like he has caused his own depression - having the rift with his father, breaking his marriage....... so is everyone who is depressed, does everyone who kill themselves have this illness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 So you believe what Dean Windass has is depression. therefor you believe he has an illness as depression is an illness. right? That is what I believe, yes. Im really not trying to stir anything or troll if thats the right thing to say but you see this is where i dont like the term illness. Dont get me wrong i know there are many people who are depressed as a state of mind and maybe that can be stated as an illness and i feel for those that have it, i would nearly consider myself the other way round, luckily. However Dean Windass wouldnt be depressed if these things didnt happen to him. He couldnt/cant cope, is that not different? Well the same can be said for any illness though. If the trigger didn't happen, the outcome wouldn't occur. By definition, depression is an illness/sickness. Because he may have caused it himself is irrelevant. That'd be like saying a smoker who gets lung cancer isn't sick/ill because he caused it himself. I am nearly ignoring the fact that it looks like he has caused his own depression - having the rift with his father, breaking his marriage....... I'm pretty sure, in a way, you could argue a lot of illnesses are the fault of the person. But yeah, it does seem to be partly his own doing regarding the marriage. I don't know what happened with his father, so don't really want to say anything about that. so is everyone who is depressed, does everyone who kill themselves have this illness? I wouldn't say everyone that kills themself has depression. But I would imagine it is one of (if not the) largest reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 One question needs answering, did the Daily Mirror pay him for the story or not ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I reckon so, yeah. Which is why I can understand the somewhat cynical comments from yourself and Trent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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